printing positives at home.

game · Mar 24, 2006

Hello everyone,

I have a colour darkroom at home. It consists of the darkroom itself. A durst enlarger, and a big developing machine, for the paper.
the negatives I bring to a lab, to get them back alltogether with a contact sheet. I was told at my school, that the development of c41 is not so critical as B/W, so leaving it to the lab was OK.

I was wondering, since I do all this with negatives very nicely. Why can't I do this with positives, dia slides?
I can imagine one uses different paper and chemicals, but that would be all I can think off. Am I right?
the machine I use, is a big 6 bath machine, with digital temperature control and speed control for every bath.
What process should I use, and is it easy?
if so, then I might be switching to slides for landscapes.

Hope to hear something about this. I searched APUG on this but could not find the answer, so here 's the thread....

Best regards Sam

htmlguru4242 · Mar 24, 2006

The correct way to do this would be with a slide - printing (positive) process, such as Cibachrome (Ilfochrome, Now). I believe that Kodak also makes a paper for this.

It's probably also possible to reversal process RA-4 paper, though you'd need to compensate for the blue tone of the paper that compensates for the C-41 orange mask. That would be a bit of a hack method though ...

Nick Zentena · Mar 24, 2006

I think Ilford is all that's left. The documents used to be on the Ilford website. I'd start by looking there.

Easy? Don't know I do RA-4. But I've never heard anybody call Ilfochrome easy.

game · Mar 24, 2006

I'll check on illfords website.
I'd say Ra 4 is easy, and since I imagine the infochrome process as quite similar except for the actual chemicals and paper, then I'll think of ilfochrome as quite easy as well.
Zentena, indeed I never hear people call it easy... Instead I hear people rave about the difficulties. "Slides are impossible to do yourself" I was wondering where all of that comes from.
Well, If anyone can think of more realted stuff I'll be happy to hear it, for now all the best - Sam

game · Mar 24, 2006

ILFOCHROME CLASSIC PROCESS P3. This 3-bath process is designed both for the professional lab, amateurs and enthusiasts. Various options are available.
KIT3.5 replaces P30P and is designed to be used in small tabletop processors such as CAP40, ICP/IWD 42 or with drum processing.

Well, when using this with ilfochrome, you have a working slides lab.....
I'll contact my deliverer about availability. If indeed things are working like they should, I'll have to reconsider my move to negative film again.... But that is for the near future.
In the mean while I again love to hear why no one is doing slides in their darkrooms, and why all the people I talk to are so damn negative about positives in a darkroom

Best regards Sam

ras351 · Mar 24, 2006

I'm probably one of the few who for colour only does Ilfochrome and not RA4. I still print B&W negatives. Ilfochrome is not a difficult process by itself and the difficulties often mentioned are associated with contrast control and colour crossover. It is also somewhat more expensive than RA4. I would recommend you start with the P30/P3.5 kit. If you get the bug you can use a modified B&W developer, the P3 bleach and B&W fixer which gives you a small amount of contrast control which may avoid the need for a contrast reduction mask. Be aware that the Ilfochrome bleach should not be used in some automated print processors.

Roger.

Paul Howell · Mar 24, 2006

Because I have a difficult time finding Ilfochrome materials, in my market, I used a slide copier to make internegatives with standard ASA 100 color film. Kodak no longer makes a true internegative film but I used rebanded Afga and I plan to try Kodak and Fuji in the next couple of weeks. The Afga seems to shift towards red, but without test equipment I don't have any way to really know, the contrast seems ok and I was able to color correct with the filter pack (color head). The slide duplicator I use is a basic unit that is used with natural sunlight, I can crop but I have not yet cropped yet so I don't what the outside limits of a crop will be.

Petzi · Mar 24, 2006

Nick Zentena said:
I think Ilford is all that's left. The documents used to be on the Ilford website. I'd start by looking there.

Easy? Don't know I do RA-4. But I've never heard anybody call Ilfochrome easy.

I used to process Cibachrome in a Jobo machine, and I found it fairly easy.

As far as I know, all other color reversal processes have been discontinued.

Cibachrome processors (roller transport) are not that hard to find nor are they expensive. That should make life easy if you are serious about printing slides.

Petzi · Mar 24, 2006

game said:
the machine I use, is a big 6 bath machine, with digital temperature control and speed control for every bath.

Who made the machine? Which model is it?

game · Mar 25, 2006

Petzi said:
Who made the machine? Which model is it?

it's the metoform 7060 or 6070. It's made by meteor. Which is german if I remember correctly. It's discontinued and quite obscure actually, but all spare parts are still available. How do I find out if this machine can deal with cibachrome chemicals? Never found any warnings or whatever in the manual.

Best regards Sam.

Petzi · Mar 25, 2006

Warnings? What warnings?

Probably the machine is made for the Kodak reversal paper process? Depending on what you can set the temperature to, the replenishment etc. it may well be usable for Ilfochrome. You have the documantation for the processor. Compare the configuration of the machine with the requirements for Ilfochrome. Meteor made good equipment.

ras351 · Mar 25, 2006

game said:
it's the metoform 7060 or 6070. It's made by meteor. Which is german if I remember correctly. It's discontinued and quite obscure actually, but all spare parts are still available. How do I find out if this machine can deal with cibachrome chemicals? Never found any warnings or whatever in the manual.

Best regards Sam.

Is there any mention of the processes which the processor can handle or anything about the use of acids? The Ilfochrome bleach is fairly corrosive and can damage the internals of some processors. Is the manufacturer still in business? You may have better luck than I did with a google search - I'm not multi-lingual and couldn't understand half the returned pages.

Roger.

Petzi · Mar 25, 2006

Meteor Siegen still exist, but they quit making those processors. I think they still support their product. I have an RA-4 processor, and it's not broken so no need for support...

game · Mar 25, 2006

I actually have had some email contact with a guy from meteor. And I think he is the one to ask this question. I'll email him on the matter. Thanks for the warnings. Best regards Sam

boyooso · Mar 25, 2006

When using P3 or P3X bleach all the metal parts in the bleach transport need to be titanium. The Sulfuric Acid in the bleach will eat way other metals.

Corey

game · Mar 26, 2006

allrighty..... :|
So I quess the party is over

Can anyone say something more in this.
Game

Donald Miller · Mar 26, 2006

I used to do Cibachrome in drums and a motor base. So I had no experience with a processor. The problem with the material at that time was the contrast issues. Usually required a contrast reduction mask. Converting the slides to internegatives seemed to deliver a better balanced print.

ras351 · Mar 26, 2006

game said:
So I quess the party is over

I believe it is worth an email to ask if your processor can handle the chemicals. If not drum processing is not difficult - I use 2nd hand Jobo drums and a 2nd hand motorised roller base for my processing. The temperature control is not that critical and for P30 can be done between 20C and 29C although the standard is 24C. Both the bleach and fixing step go to completion so it is really only the developer step which needs some care and even that can drift 1C either side of the desired temperature. As previously mentioned you can use the exposure and developer step to help control contrast. At 24C the standard time is 3 minutes per step plus a couple of short rinses so excluding washing, the processing takes around 10 minutes. The P3.5 process should be similar.

Roger.

game · Mar 26, 2006

I'll wait and see what the manufacterer will say. I read something about a similar metoform being used for cibachrome, si perhaps my machine can do it too. Else wise, bad luck. I won't be fooling arounf with other equipment. The machine should do the trick. It is more likr if ilfochrome can be done quite easily, why not. I'll post the comments from my contact at meteor as soon as I get them.

Best regards Sam

Petzi · Mar 26, 2006

boyooso said:
When using P3 or P3X bleach all the metal parts in the bleach transport need to be titanium. The Sulfuric Acid in the bleach will eat way other metals.

Yeah and don't ever put your finger in the bleach, you will hear a "poof", the flesh will be eaten away and only the bone will remain.

boyooso · Mar 26, 2006

Petzi said:
Yeah and don't ever put your finger in the bleach, you will hear a "poof", the flesh will be eaten away and only the bone will remain.

No Joke, it is the only photo chemical I've used that hurts if you don't wipe it off... Also, if you stir it up into the air it will take your breathe away, it is not friendly. However, if you take care in how and where you handle the chemicals it can be safe.

Corey

game · Mar 27, 2006

Thanks guys for sharing this.
I don't want to be a fool and damage my health in any way.
Game

game · Mar 27, 2006

I can by the way buy it from my deliverer, but it takes 4 weeks to arrive.... And the prices, Damn.
190 dollar for 5 liltre. That's extreme.

Sam

Petzi · Mar 27, 2006

Ilfochrome is not cheap, never has been. But the results are special. You have to see it, maybe you like it. You can make some spectacular prints with it.

davetravis · Mar 27, 2006

Game,
Don't pull the trigger too quickly...
I print Ilfochromes full-time for a living.
Processors: Any of the Jobo drum systems will work.
CAP40S, ICP42 are available on Ebay, and are getting cheaper by the minute.
Start with the P3.5 chemistry and CPS1K polyester paper, a perfect fit right out of the box!
The smells are noxious, but not toxic. Get fresh air into the room, or install a flow-through exhaust.
Start with the suggested filter pack, and plan on doing some burning/dodging, unless you make the contrast masks, I've never needed those.
Check out Cafe Ilfopro at: Http://www.ilford.com/html/us_english/ILFOPRO/forum/default.asp
Good luck, and enjoy!
Long live Ciba!!!

printing positives at home.

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