Printing on canvas?

[jernejk]

I have this idea to print on canvas (or even other objects). I have no idea where to start, no experience with silver gelatine.
Should the canvas be mounted or should i mount it later? Do i process it as usual or…?

Thanks for any pointers!

 

[MrBrowning]

I've done it using Rollei Black Magic liquid emulsion. I used a pre-streched canvas from the art store and used oil-based polyurethane paint to coat it the canvas before apply the emulsion. I had good results with it. As for processing each emulsion should have instructions. One note make sure not to use high temps because the emulsion will come right off. I have a bottle of Rollei in storage at the moment waiting to be used. Just need the time.

For the Rollei stuff see here http://www.digitaltruth.com/products/rollei_blackmagic.php for instructions. Also I found the Liquid Light page to be quite helpful too http://www.rockaloid.com/_pdf/instructions/Liquid%20Light%20inst.pdf. On page one of the LL link it has artists canvas which is where I got the tip about using the poly. Hope this helps.

 

[AgX]

Canvas bearing an emulsion without special underlayer was offered once in Europe. It was processed like common photographic paper.

 

[jernejk]

That sounds great. I'm in Europe and can order Rollei, which is cool since it comes in different grades.

Does the paint overlay the canvas texture? I would really like to keep the texture and the canvas feel.
Emulsion is applied directly on paint then? Is gelatine needed? How long does it need to rest before it can be used?

Sorry, i know this is lots of questions, but I have zero experience with this

 

[MrBrowning]

I bought the spray can of poly (make sure it is oil based glossy) and gave the canvases 2 light coats of it. It kept the texture just fine. a lot of cheap art store canvas (it's what I used to practice on) has acrylic gesso on it and the emulsion peels off. Thus the need for the poly. No gelatin is needed if using the poly. Just spray it (giving about 2 hours between coats) and leave over night. The next day you can put the emulsion on and once it's dry you're set to go. Use the second link I provided even though it's for Liquid Light. I found it to be more of a help than Rollei's pdf and started to have better results after using it.

If using an uncoated canvas (no acrylic gesso) then I'd use the gelatin. The canvas I bought weren't labeled as having the gesso coating but when the emulsion started peeling off that was the only explanation I could find.

Unfortunately mine are long gone (had pipes break in the house where they were stored and lost them along with a lot of other stuff). Otherwise I'd post a picture of them.

 

[David Allen]

It has been a long time since I used liquid emulsion on canvas.

However, at the time (using liquid light) I applied direct to the canvas as it is porous enough to absorb the emulsion.

If this is an area that you wish to explore in more depth, then I can recommend Silver Gelatin: A User's Guide to Liquid Photographic Emulsions by Martin Reed (he formerly of Silverprint) and Sarah Jones. It has a huge wealth of information. Although $60 for a copy is common on the used market, you can still buy it for £20 direct from Silverprint:

http://shop.silverprint.co.uk/SILVER-GELATIN-Book-Martin-Reed-amp;-Sarah-Jones/product/2121/2121/

In addition, here is a link to a simple guide to making your own emulsion that I squirrelled away for future reference

http://processreversal.org/public/text/Osterman_making_gelatin_emusion.pdf

Bests,

David.
www.dsallen.de

 

[Ghostman]

I recently played around with printing on canvases, big ones about 50*50 cm.

If you paint you'll know that one doesn't work on raw canvas as it's too absorbent. Painters prime their canvasses with a layer of acrylic, gesso or if they want to preserve the raw canvas, rabbit skin glue. Raw canvas would be very difficult to coat and would drink up all your emulsion.

In my case I used gelatin on an already primed canvas. I also used hardener. It was fun, but tricky.

My problem was stopping it from peeling off in the developer/fix rinse phase. With a large canvas like I was using, I had to pour the chemistry over the canvas, collect it and pour etc. as I never had a bath big enough to do it like a print. The effect is still very cool, really ragged like a mega blown up xerox copy. I will try again, but with smaller prints.

 

[jernejk]

I'll try some small canvases first. So framed canvas is ok? wood is not too affected by chemicals?
Oh, do I need a fixer with hardener and hypo clear? I don't use those with film / paper.

 

[MrBrowning]

A hardener helps if the emulsion is peeling at the fixer stage. I remember somewhere reading you can add alum hardener to your developer if you are having problems with peeling. No the wood shouldn't affect it (at least not in my experience).

 

[Photo Engineer]

DO NOT ADD ALUM TO ANY DEVELOPER!!! Not only is it inactive, it precipitates out as a gooey white mess. Use a prehardener or a hardening fix if you have problems. These solutions are acidic and will harden just fine. Or, put a hardener into the emulsion before coating. You can use chrome alum or glyoxal.

PE

 

[Ghostman]

Small canvases are good to start. I used hardener in the fix and in the gelatin. I guess you'll have to experiment with the process, so have fun. I used Rollei black magic, rollei photo gelatin and hardener.

 

[MrBrowning]

DO NOT ADD ALUM TO ANY DEVELOPER!!! Not only is it inactive, it precipitates out as a gooey white mess. Use a prehardener or a hardening fix if you have problems. These solutions are acidic and will harden just fine. Or, put a hardener into the emulsion before coating. You can use chrome alum or glyoxal.

PE

I apologize. I got that from David Allen's link on making emulsion and I misread it.

From page 13 of the link


"Peeling Problems: On occasion, photographers had problems with the emulsion lifting
from the edges of the plate; an effect called “frilling.” Assuming the glass support was
properly cleaned, this usually happened when the developer was either too alkaline or
the temperature of the developer was too hot. A simple 2% alum hardening bath before
or after development, or a little alum added to the fixing solution was usually enough to
prevent frilling. If peeling is a persistent problem, pre-coat your glass plates with a 2%
subbing solution of hard gelatin containing"


Again my apologies and thank you for correcting me i'd hate to screw someone up.

 

[ToddB]

I played with Liquid Emulsion back in college. I remember doing a canvas print and recall geso the canvas along with test strips and made everything was the same. I stapled the material to plywood board. I to run developer, stop, and fixer over the board with canvas with medium beaker in the developing tray. I will say that it is kind of messy. I did a 16x20 image. Make sure to paint in on as even as possible. Horizontal and vertically.