Printing larger than 16x20?

ToddB · Jun 8, 2015

Hey guys,

is is there a way to print larger than 16x20 in 16x20 processing trays? Anyone tried processing print rolled up?

jamespierce · Jun 8, 2015

There is no reason you couldn't make a few 20x24s in a 16x20 tray by carefully see-sawing the print back and forwards. You're going to have to be pretty careful not to mark or kink the print if it's not RC.

Xmas · Jun 8, 2015

People used to process long rolls in bathroom bath.

ToddB · Jun 8, 2015

Bathtub!? Oh... That wouldn't go over well with the wife. I can see it now.. "What the hell is going on? Are you insane"! So.. Rolled up prints in a 16x20 tray?

Sirius Glass · Jun 8, 2015

Use either large trays or print tanks like the Jobo Print Tanks.

GRHazelton · Jun 8, 2015

How about making a "tray" out of 2 x 2 stock with heavy plastic sheeting to retain the liquid? It should be cheap enough to make 3 for dev, stop, and fix. Or a section of plastic gutter, sealed at each end, then see-saw the paper to develop it? I'd favor the "tray" since it should minimize damage to the expensive paper.

Or a section of 4" or 6" plastic pipe, cut in half lengthwise. With the white plastic stuff endcaps are available; solvent weld the cut in half caps. Looks to be cheaper than the gutter, perhaps. Cheap is gooooood....... More money for film and paper.

Xmas · Jun 8, 2015

ToddB said:
Bathtub!? Oh... That wouldn't go over well with the wife. I can see it now.. "What the hell is going on? Are you insane"! So.. Rolled up prints in a 16x20 tray?

lock door of bathroom.

You can apply the dev and fix with a sponge rather then rolled up.

rthollenbeck · Jun 8, 2015

Why not plastic 35 or 55 gallon drums and you can rotary process the prints like they are giant cibachrome drums?

MattKing · Jun 8, 2015

A couple of 20 inch lengths of 8 inch PVC pipe should allow you to roll your 20x24 prints in 16x20 trays.

Bob Carnie does really large mural prints in smaller trays, but rumour has it that he needs Dinesh to help

Athiril · Jun 9, 2015

2*pi*radius will give you the circumference of a circle, so if you use the inner diameter of some tubing halved, you can work out what print length will fit inside, and as above roll in a tray, or cap it and roll for a few minutes followed by stop on its own.

Hilo · Jun 9, 2015

All the above suggestions will or may work to some extent. If you are talking PE paper, it will be easier. If you are talking fiber paper, then you will be stretching it. These sheets are more difficult to handle and damage more easily.

Why can't you simply get some 20X24 trays? If you want I give you the exact outside sizes of my 20X24 trays. This size tray is also very good for 16X20 prints . . .

Trays work best. I have done and still do lots of 20X24cm fiber prints. The whole experience is about the size of the trays and the quantity of chemicals. For me it works better to use a minimum of 5 liters of chemicals per tray. And when I do a lot of prints, I increase that to 8 liters. It just makes it a lot easier to move your prints around in the developer , and to move them from one tray to the other.
Obviously I use that kind of quantity over a longer period. It's just the stop bath that is fresh each time again.

gone · Jun 9, 2015

I would just build some trays out of wood. Very easy material to work with, cheap, and readily available. Then either use a sealer and paint it w/ polyurethane or epoxy (could get pricey if you don't have it laying around), or simply lay some roll plastic like a painters drop cloth in it. The weight of the chemicals will hold it down. You're not going to be doing anything that would puncture the plastic, simply sloshing a piece of paper around in it. Clean up would be a breeze too.

I agree, if you're using fiber paper, the trays are better to avoid damage.

amellice · Jun 9, 2015

there's a picture in ansel adams the print of john sexton doing print in a smaller tray, you'd probably need help, another person and you have to keep rolling the print in the tray and he or she unroll it from the other side and then reverse the process

flavio81 · Jun 9, 2015

Xmas said:
lock door of bathroom.

LOL

PVC 8" pipes with the print inside + a smaller circa 8" width tray sounds like an idea I would like to experiment with.

pi*(8 inch diameter) is approximately 24 inches of perimeter. That would allow for a 20-inch tall print.

I wonder if the hardware store carries larger than 8" tubing.

MattKing · Jun 9, 2015

flavio81 said:
LOL

PVC 8" pipes with the print inside + a smaller circa 8" width tray sounds like an idea I would like to experiment with.

pi*(8 inch diameter) is approximately 24 inches of perimeter. That would allow for a 20-inch tall print.

I wonder if the hardware store carries larger than 8" tubing.

8 inch pipe will have enough room inside for 25 inches or so of paper.

So you can put the long dimension of a 20 x 24 into a 20 inch piece of pipe.

A cap on one end, and a lip on the other would make it easier to handle.

Nige · Jun 9, 2015

I have one 20x24" tray and three 99 cent buckets. Pour chemicals from bucket to tray and back to bucket. Saves handling the paper.

Years ago, I did do a couple of large prints using a wallpaper tray and see-sawing the paper back and forward but you risk kinking the paper and you still need something to wash the print in (I used the bath!).

Hatchetman · Jun 9, 2015

you could use some plastic storage bins they sell at Walmart, Target, etc.

destroya · Jun 9, 2015

check craigs list. i bought 6 20x24 trays for $5 each

Hilo · Jun 10, 2015

destroya said:
check craigs list. i bought 6 20x24 trays for $5 each

Thanks for bringing us back to reality !

It is fun to read about tubes and bins, but seriously: in the tray you are witness to the most important part of printing - to see the image appear! In those two minutes you see in a beautiful slow motion if you've done well or not. It is a defining moment that teaches you everything. On top of that it is magic.

MattKing · Jun 10, 2015

Hilo said:
Thanks for bringing us back to reality !

It is fun to read about tubes and bins, but seriously: in the tray you are witness to the most important part of printing - to see the image appear! In those two minutes you see in a beautiful slow motion if you've done well or not. It is a defining moment that teaches you everything. On top of that it is magic.

I'll certainly agree with what you say, but ...

There is no way I can fit 20 x 24 trays in my temporary darkroom.

I can just barely squeeze 16 x 20 trays in.

MartinP · Jun 10, 2015

The solutions (pun intended) for processing might include using refills and one large tray in place of three smaller ones, or using long narrow plastic containers from a garden-centre (eg. the things that take half a dozen plant-pots in a row) with either see-saw processing or rolling.

The tricky bit for large fibre-prints isn't the processing though, it's the washing. Space is needed, plus a water supply and drain of some sort although it could drain into a large container I suppose, if using the multiple-fill and stand type of wash. In all cases, for large paper a washaid will be pretty much essential for any degree of longevity and that implies yet another tray or container.

I have set down a large tray in my shower-room when washing 16x20" fibre prints and that was simple to do - but rather inconvenient. The plastic tray was the type that goes under a washing machine as a leak-catcher, and is 70cm square by 10cm deep. Unfortunately it is not rigid and cannot really be used for processing without splashes, but for washing it works adequately.

mitch brown · Jun 10, 2015

go to the heating and cooling supplier and get a tray that is made to go under a heat pump or ac unit that's what I did get one larger than you need as you never know you might want to go larger some day
mitch

Hilo · Jun 11, 2015

MattKing said:
I'll certainly agree with what you say, but ...

There is no way I can fit 20 x 24 trays in my temporary darkroom.

I can just barely squeeze 16 x 20 trays in.

When I was around 20 years old I had the same problem and built from wood a rack that held three 20X24 trays above one another. The developer went into the top tray, stop bath in the middle and fixer in the lowest. A fourth tray stood in the shower nearby, filled with water to stack the fixed prints, and to wash them. I still have some of these prints, Agfa Record Rapid fiber paper . . .

Must have used that darkroom five years for sure, after that the rack got lost . . .

Hilo · Jun 11, 2015

Forgot to say the lowest (fixer) tray stuck out most, the middle (stop) tray somewhat less and the top tray did not stick out . . . this meant little spilling . . .

Kilgallb · Jun 12, 2015

Some time ago there was a thread on this. Someone suggested wall paper trays. Roll the paper throught the tray like, well a piece of wall paper.

Printing larger than 16x20?

ToddB

jamespierce

Xmas

ToddB

Sirius Glass

GRHazelton

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rthollenbeck

MattKing

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Athiril

Hilo

gone

amellice

flavio81

MattKing

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Nige

Hatchetman

destroya

Hilo

MattKing

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MartinP

mitch brown

Hilo

Hilo

Kilgallb

Printing larger than 16x20?

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