Printing large

Ai Print · Oct 21, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
Could you describe your Mural Washer design - I too am wanting to make one - on my bucket list.

I’ll be happy to Bob, I am just starting though so I have to figure it into my layout, capacity, drain, etc.

Arklatexian · Oct 21, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
Could you describe your Mural Washer design - I too am wanting to make one - on my bucket list.

Most of the professional photographers that I have helped only did murals occasionally and washed them in their bathtubs. If you only have showers, you have "got a problem". When processing, we built troughs for the chemicals and two of us would process the 7' long prints by each holding one edge and see-sawing the print through the solutions. This set-up worked and the prints lasted far longer than was needed, finally being destroyed physically.........Regards!

Ai Print · Oct 22, 2018

Arklatexian said:
Most of the professional photographers that I have helped only did murals occasionally and washed them in their bathtubs. If you only have showers, you have "got a problem". When processing, we built troughs for the chemicals and two of us would process the 7' long prints by each holding one edge and see-sawing the print through the solutions. This set-up worked and the prints lasted far longer than was needed, finally being destroyed physically.........Regards!

Right, but professional labs need a more consistent and fail safe method to do that and a professional lab is exactly what Bob runs.

I on the other hand am a professional photographer looking to work at the level of a professional lab, hence I am after the same level of output.

It’s also about taking this craft into the 21st century in terms of how water is used since it’s increasing scarcity is likely the biggest obstacle this craft faces in the coming years.

I’ll be sure to share what I do as it progresses.

Bob Carnie · Oct 22, 2018

Think Fish tank, heavy welded plastic , Vertical with a good method of in and out of water, also floor model as lifting murals higher up is problem, dip and dunk hangers to hold the paper, I have had this in
mind for a very long time,
In some of my videos you see my large tray washers where I have drilled holes around the edges to drain, works really well but is slow when doing large jobs.

Ai Print · Oct 22, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
Think Fish tank, heavy welded plastic , Vertical with a good method of in and out of water, also floor model as lifting murals higher up is problem, dip and dunk hangers to hold the paper, I have had this in
mind for a very long time,
In some of my videos you see my large tray washers where I have drilled holes around the edges to drain, works really well but is slow when doing large jobs.

I was thinking along these lines as well, maybe a 5 sheet capacity though as I might have to use the "Taco" method to save space. It's a couple months out either way.

John51 · Oct 22, 2018

If building a v large slot processor, rather than lift and lower the print, it might be easier to spray on the chems and wash water. To avoid oxygenation it could be a sealed system. Load the print, batten down the hatches and chase the air out with something inert. Hit a button and a line of spray nozzles move along the print.

Bob Carnie · Oct 23, 2018

Ai Print said:
I was thinking along these lines as well, maybe a 5 sheet capacity though as I might have to use the "Taco" method to save space. It's a couple months out either way.

If the slot is 1 inch wide and you had five slots it would be quite possible to wash 10 - 30 x40 murals at the same time . I think this really is the only answer for me, I have no interest in ways of washing one print as I have never ever in one session made one print... When I do mural shows the wash sequence is critical and must be strictly managed.

trendland · Oct 23, 2018

Peter de Groot said:
I have printed large a couple of times in the darkroom of my artschool. However now I have started to set this up in my own darkroom. With this setup I can print up to 6 feet tall. 1,80x1,27m. However I don't have the stand ready for the paper. I did make some testprints. In my blogpost and video you can see how I go about it.

https://allthingsanalogue.weebly.com/blog/printing-large

The max. I printed (short after beginning in darkroom 1978) was 1,00 x 1,40 in Meter. If I would had know that 1,30 meter rolls avaible I'd proced like you. Today 1,30 rolls are not realy cheap. 1978 a roll was at 90,- bucks

with regards

trendland · Oct 23, 2018

Arklatexian said:
Most of the professional photographers that I have helped only did murals occasionally and washed them in their bathtubs. If you only have showers, you have "got a problem". When processing, we built troughs for the chemicals and two of us would process the 7' long prints by each holding one edge and see-sawing the print through the solutions. This set-up worked and the prints lasted far longer than was needed, finally being destroyed physically.........Regards!

Pls. don't remember me on my 1978 workflow in bathroom with temperated fixer (without gas mask) ..

with regards

MarkL · Nov 9, 2018

Bob Carnie said:
If the slot is 1 inch wide and you had five slots it would be quite possible to wash 10 - 30 x40 murals at the same time . I think this really is the only answer for me, I have no interest in ways of washing one print as I have never ever in one session made one print... When I do mural shows the wash sequence is critical and must be strictly managed.

If I might offer my novice thoughts: I’ve fabricated a tray out of ¼” thick plexiglass (acrylic) sheets and the correct glue before. It’s very easy to cut and drill, just about like working with wood. I’d do it out of clear plexi, and work out a system to suspend the prints from clips (easy). You could even lift the prints out using the same clips and use the clips to hang-dry the prints. To reduce weight, you could make the internal dividers out of 1/8” thick and have them removable. Maybe the wet print could be stuck to a removed divider, then fed into the washer on it so it doesn’t get damaged. Hmm, it could probably be removed on the divider as well.

The washer would have to be on the floor in order to have headroom to position and lower the print in of course. You could have the top of the washer be just above your sink edge level so an overflow hose could run into the sink. For the outlet/drain, a basic aquarium pump outside the washer at floor level could be used. I’d say have a ½” PVC ball valve that could be opened/adjusted to feed the pump. I’m familiar with all these fittings and pump plumbing because I made a test system for circulating lith developer using a pump. It works great!

I hope to try 32x40 prints again someday and I assumed I’d scroll wash them in a half pipe section of large green (10” or 12”) PVC, because I have no bath tub. But if I end up making a 32x40 I’ll post pics!

Mark

trendland · Nov 11, 2018

Peter de Groot said:
I have printed large a couple of times in the darkroom of my artschool. However now I have started to set this up in my own darkroom. With this setup I can print up to 6 feet tall. 1,80x1,27m. However I don't have the stand ready for the paper. I did make some testprints. In my blogpost and video you can see how I go about it.

https://allthingsanalogue.weebly.com/blog/printing-large

Buy the way Peter how is the price you spent for a roll ? I remember some years ago with nice
priced rolls in 30 meter ( 30 : 3 = 10 Meter) And to come on 10 Meter roll from price it wasn't so much
and afordable. Somewhere about 300 bucks a roll if I remember right. But today it increased much - isn't it ?

with regards

Peter de Groot · Nov 12, 2018

I haven't bought any rolls yet. I got some expired rolls for free. But Foma sells 10m rolls at 1,08 mters wide for between €100 and €200 euro's. Which is in my book not bad at all. For Illford you are talking €300,00 euro and up for 10 meters long and 1,27 meters wide. A bit more expensive but doable. My best bet now is to use PE or RC paper to go large because you don't need to wash so extensively as with baryta paper.

But first my sink needs to be declogged as the water is not running away quickly. Once that is solved i can go nuts haha.

Oh yeah and i am going to buy some Kodak hypo clear as well.

Peter de Groot · Nov 12, 2018

Lachlan Young said:
DeVille make a powered washer for their bobinor roller system - can't speak to effectiveness, given that I use a 4x6ft sink to wash big prints in.

I would love to have one of those. My teacher used to have one. He was telling me how he exposed multiple photo's on one roll of paper and let it run continuosly through the bobinor system. He has the tray that come with it. But I don't think I can justify buying one though. Ah well one can only dream. For now my gutters work ok. I think I want them a bit longer but that has a really low priority right now.

trendland · Nov 12, 2018

Peter de Groot said:
I haven't bought any rolls yet. I got some expired rolls for free. But Foma sells 10m rolls at 1,08 mters wide for between €100 and €200 euro's. Which is in my book not bad at all. For Illford you are talking €300,00 euro and up for 10 meters long and 1,27 meters wide. A bit more expensive but doable. My best bet now is to use PE or RC paper to go large because you don't need to wash so extensively as with baryta paper.

But first my sink needs to be declogged as the water is not running away quickly. Once that is solved i can go nuts haha.

Oh yeah and i am going to buy some Kodak hypo clear as well.

Aha - I see Peter , well bw paper in such format for less is probably the best way.
As you refered to Foma - I just remember the source of my pricefinding. Perhaps I am able to find the listing : It was Foma paper distributed via Rollei 1m x 30m around 295,- bucks (and that is real cheap caused from 30m) but I didn't buy it......

with regards

Peter de Groot · Nov 12, 2018

For instance Fomabrom costs for 10 meter €164,00. That is not bad.

I have looked into the Bobinoir system of Deville. I want it. Now I am trying to come up with reasons to pay 1900 euro's for something i will barely use haha

bence8810 · Nov 15, 2018

Hello Peter,

Very nice job! I've done a handful of large prints with even more limited space and no tray what so ever on a bathroom floor. Have a look at my thread below:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/large-wall-projected-print-from-135-small-format.131386/

I used RC paper as it is possible to develop by just splashing a minimal amount of developer on it and using sponges.
This winter I want to print a few more but as I've upgraded to Focomat enlargers, I won't be able to do the wall projection anymore. With my Ic I tried to do floor projection but I can't quite get up to the size I wanted, will need to figure something out.

Very impressive work, enjoyed your blog entry.
Ben

MarkL · Nov 15, 2018

Yes Peter, thanks for posting the video. Those are some enormous gutters and wondering if they're available in the USA. I made some half pipes out of 10" or 12" green PVC sewer pipe but have never used them.

sruddy · Nov 15, 2018

Nice width on those gutters. I've never seen any like that. I'm in the process of making large prints myself. I just aquired a free 12' x 48" pvc off cu. This will give me a 37" wide print. Hopefully I'll be happy with this size otherwize I'll be looking for a larger diameter tube which are hard to come by for free. I haven't decided on the end design yet but ordered caps and don't like how heavy they are so I'm returnig them. I'm thinking acrylic next. I'll be doing everything in one tube, including washing, so less chemical use.

Peter de Groot · Nov 28, 2018

In the netherlands I ordered them at a website. One piece of 4 meters length. They cut it in 3 pieces for me. I also bought the end caps.It works although not ideal but hey I ain't complaining ;-)

Michael Wesik · Jan 22, 2019

Just on the note of processing and washing...I wouldn't put a mural-sized print into a tank-style washer. The logistics would be a nightmare....

I've processed all of my mural prints in one tray, one-shotting all the chemistry. It's a system that I tested extensively. I can process a fibre print with the same precision and repeatability of an 8x10 print; and I can execute various toning applications with all the requisite archival washing cycles, without over-handling the prints. I would be pretty terrified to put a mural sized print vertically into a tank-style washer.

Michael Wesik · Jan 22, 2019

Sorry, my bad for not reading the whole thread; I didn't realize that by "mural print" you were talking 30x40s...thought you meant a 56x80" piece of paper. 30x40s could totally be doable in a tank-style washer. I know that Alistair Inglis had designed a custom washer that large for a client...same idea as your typical tank washer. So they do exist... He's an amazing plastics welder who understands the mechanics of the medium.

Printing large

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency