Printing in the Darkroom

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GloriB

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I've been developing film in my darkroom for some time now and while I have an enlarger, I just haven't gotten back into printing anything. I guess what I'm wondering is what does everyone do with what they print? Does that question make sense? My workflow is to scan my negatives with the Plustek 8200ai and edit in Lightroom.

What advantages do most people find for darkroom printing?

Hope this doesn't sound like a lame post but I guess I'm just trying to justify going further in the darkroom with printing. Thanks
 

frank

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The advantage is in obtaining silver gelatin photographic prints for display, gifts, and sale. And the satisfaction inherent in the process/production of these prints.
 

David Brown

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Hope this doesn't sound like a lame post but I guess I'm just trying to justify going further in the darkroom with printing. Thanks

No it doesn't sound "lame", it sounds like a troll.

If it's not, I apologize. However:

There is no answer for your question. There is no "advantage". It is a choice we have made to produce prints. Many feel they are better, but that's subjective.

Sorry, but there seem to be a growing number of people who shoot film, but then scan and print digitally, if at all. I'm not against this, I just don't understand. If the goal is to scan, and especially then to view on a screen, perhaps someone could tell me the advantage of shooting film.
 

ROL

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I guess what I'm wondering is what does everyone do with what they print? Does that question make sense?

It makes a great deal of sense, and in many ways. Every person on this forum should have asked, or be asking, the question of themselves. And come up with some sort of answer other than the desire to simply opinionate on forums.

I was asked this question point blank in 'school', and since I understood why it was asked of me and no one else, it had particular significance. Answering the question in a real, practical way drove what happened, for good or bad, over the following 20 years. My reasons for printing may have changed over the years, but I still must evaluate my goals every once and a while to make certain I am being true to myself, and the realities of the art form.

From my perspective, the advantages of the DR are solely in the uniqueness of the result, in the process of working with film. That means, for me at this point, only working with large format negatives. Digital has obviated all other formats and totally superseded image making. If you are not planning on showing your work, or covering your walls with it, or do not love the process, there is absolutely no reason to shoot anything but digital. Shooting film just to be converted to pixels and posted on electronic media seems an incredible waste of time and talent, an exercise in futility. Film and the DR is for making something.
What do I do with my work? I show it, sell it, give some away, occasionally reference it in posts (:wink:) – but most importantly, my house is fully appointed with it, at my wife's insistence and total support.

LivingRoomLighting.JPG
 
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ROL

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Sorry, but there seem to be a growing number of people who shoot film, but then scan and print digitally, if at all. I'm not against this, I just don't understand. If the goal is to scan, and especially then to view on a screen, perhaps someone could tell me the advantage of shooting film.

Ha! Well, David seeming agrees with me. :wink:
 
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I have pontificated on this many times....

To me its easy, when you have the negative you are only half way there...

The final print is the subject of the photo itself, the negative and your interpretation
of it in printed form.

Your craft, or the craft of the printer turns the original image into the final and permanent
silver gelatin print that cannot be replicated.

To me, whilst alternative systems do exist they are not photographic prints in the true sense of the word.

Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
 

frank

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For many/most of us on this forum, darkroom printing is a pleasant and rewarding pastime/hobby.
 

omaha

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Sorry, but there seem to be a growing number of people who shoot film, but then scan and print digitally, if at all. I'm not against this, I just don't understand. If the goal is to scan, and especially then to view on a screen, perhaps someone could tell me the advantage of shooting film.

For color, I find a good scan from a 6x7 Portra 160 negative to be a better foundation for subsequent post-processing than I can get from a digital camera. In theory, bits are bits, but in (my) reality, Portra looks better.

As for B&W, as someone who just re-entered the world of darkroom printing last year, here are my reasons:

- Its something to do. Its a challenge.
- The resulting product just looks better. When I (on rare occasion) manage to get a print that I am truly satisfied with, it just has a depth and expressiveness that I can not get from B&W digital.

And then there are two "biggies", and while these are admittedly somewhat philosophical, they are very real to me:

First is the notion of provenance. I like the fact that when I make a print, I have created a real thing. Each time you do so, you have created an existentially unique object that can never be precisely replicated (unlike an inkjet print which requires zero skill to produce, and may be replicated in unlimited quantities without any artistic effort). I have no delusions that any of my photography will ever be of any collectible value, but I do flatter myself that some day my great-great grandchildren might take some interest in it. Because of that, I make an effort to produce "things", not just images. My B&W stuff (the keepers, that is) is all framed, and I include a little note behind the photograph that described what (more particularly, who, since I almost exclusively take pictures of people) it is about. I flatter myself that because my great-great grandchildren will be able to hold one of my photographs in their hands, and know that the exact same thing was also in my hands, they might consider it more of an heirloom than just another picture.

Second, and most importantly, I am well and truly disgusted by the gestalt of shooting digital and then converting the files to B&W. I believe in craft, and I believe that a big part of craft is getting the most out of the media that you choose. I have no objection to shooting digital, but if you are going to do that, then own it. Maximize your tools. Engage your craft. A well constructed digital photograph can be a beautiful thing. If you will forgive and indulge a digital image, here is one I shot last weekend. I am pleased with the result, because that is (to me, anyway) how a digital photograph should look.
Rachel-3.jpg

During the same session, I also shot a roll of FP4+ through my RB67, and posted a (there was a url link here which no longer exists). It looks profoundly different than the digital photo, of course. And to be perfectly honest, I believe my skills and experience in digital are far superior (for now) to what I can get from an analog print. But the important point is that with both photographs, I used the media to the limits of my capabilities. It is trivially simple to take the digital photograph, run it through Photoshop, and create a B&W version...its even trivial to come up with a highly stylized version that simulates some sort of alt-process sort of thing.

But in doing that, you are making a decision to deliberately degrade your photograph. You are stripping away not only the color, but the authenticity. You are taking away the "digitalness" of it in order to try to create a simulation of something else.

Artistically, that just doesn't work for me. I think as a matter of craft, you have an obligation to maximize your media. Putting wagon wheels on a Porsche does not make it a carriage. It just makes it a silly Porsche.

Of course, all that is just my opinion. As passionate as I am about this stuff, I am equally passionate that every person needs to find their "chi" and make it work for them.
 

Sirius Glass

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The advantage is in obtaining silver gelatin photographic prints for display, gifts, and sale. And the satisfaction inherent in the process/production of these prints.

Silver gelatin photographic prints are much higher quality than inkjet prints.
 

frank

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Silver gelatin photographic prints are much higher quality than inkjet prints.

I'm not sure of the intent behind your post.

Those are your words, not mine, because I don't want to start an argument.

They are different. Okay?

Given a choice, I do have a preference. Is that okay too?

:smile:
 

DREW WILEY

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1) I make my living with a computer. I hate it, but have a bit more than a year till retirement. It's the last thing I want to do on my free time.
2) I love darkroom work. I love film Simple. 3) I have yet to find anyone who can do better printing digitally than I can do in a well-equipped
darkroom, either black and white or in color (though I do know people who do very good digital printing, some of the best, in fact. ... It just
depends on what you LIKE to do, your level of commitment, and whether or not you have a darkroom. It's an utter myth that digital has qualitatively replaced conventional film. Many people think it's the other way around. I'm neutral. Anything high quality takes time to master,
regardless. But if you just want to have fun, it's a great time to acquire good used darkroom gear inexpensively. Many of the films and papers
are better than ever.
 

frank

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One of the characteristics of free time, is that one can spend it however one chooses. I choose the darkroom. Or on an old motorcycle.
 

MattKing

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There is nothing in the world quite like seeing a print appear as if by magic in the tray of developer.
 

Hatchetman

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Answering this question with a question. Wouldn't it be appropriate to give darkroom printing a try to see how you like it and what the advantages may be? I think we all have slightly different reasons WHY we do it, but I would suggest most of us agree that the process, in and of itself, is enjoyable. The results can be (but may not be) stunning! Judge for yourself. You have the enlarger. Basic printing is pretty easy if you're not trying to be Ansel Adams.
 

snapguy

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ink jet goodbye

Digital prints are ephemeral. I have some fabulous photos of my kids taken many years ago. Their grandchildren will never see any digital prints of these photos because the ink jet prints will fade and disappear. Their grandchildren will see the silver prints I have made and probably the grandchildren's grandchildren will see them.
 

omaha

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ink jet prints will fade and disappear

I don't necessarily agree with that.

The HP Vivera pigment ink system I use in my large format printer (HP Designjet Z2100) is rated at over 200 years under normal home/office display conditions (and assuming you are printing on proper, archival ink-jet photo paper). Put it under UV glass, you can probably double that. Put it in a dark drawer, and the ink will probably out-last the paper. And even the 200 years doesn't mean the image has vanished. It just means it has degraded (faded) a certain percentage.

Of course, that is a pro-level ink system in a pro-level printer. The average consumer banging out prints on a sub-$100 inkjet (on non-archival paper) will certainly get less durability.

Edit: And I should note...most commercially produced digital prints (ie, "Costco") should provide excellent durability as well.
 
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darkosaric

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There is nothing in the world quite like seeing a print appear as if by magic in the tray of developer.

When I saw my first print appear in tray - IMMEDIATELY I knew that I would be doing this all my life. Thousands of prints and ~10 years later - still the same.
 

Bob Carnie

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Same for me, I do other things but nothing beats seeing an image magically appear. 35 years later to boot..
When I saw my first print appear in tray - IMMEDIATELY I knew that I would be doing this all my life. Thousands of prints and ~10 years later - still the same.
 

markbarendt

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I guess what I'm wondering is what does everyone do with what they print?

Maybe a better question. What do you do with what you print now?
 
OP
OP

GloriB

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Wow, I didn't think I'd get so many replies! And no, I am not a troll on the site. I feel my questions were legitimate. I used to print in the darkroom years ago and just kind of got away from it. It is easier to scan the negs but like so many have said, it kind of defeats the purpose of shooting film. I don't do any ink jet printing at all. So after reading what everybody had to say, I'm definitely going to get the enlarger dusted off and get ready to do some printing. There definitely is something about holding a print in your hands and saying "I did that" that does bring a lot of satisfaction. Thanks for all the responses!
 

frank

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Wow, I didn't think I'd get so many replies! And no, I am not a troll on the site. I feel my questions were legitimate. I used to print in the darkroom years ago and just kind of got away from it. It is easier to scan the negs but like so many have said, it kind of defeats the purpose of shooting film. I don't do any ink jet printing at all. So after reading what everybody had to say, I'm definitely going to get the enlarger dusted off and get ready to do some printing. There definitely is something about holding a print in your hands and saying "I did that" that does bring a lot of satisfaction. Thanks for all the responses!

I'm happy we were able to help you out with that. :smile:
 

Sirius Glass

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I'm not sure of the intent behind your post.

Those are your words, not mine, because I don't want to start an argument.

They are different. Okay?

Given a choice, I do have a preference. Is that okay too?

:smile:

Yes, but you also asked if there was an advantage to darkroom printing as opposed to inkjet printing. My answer is that there is a different look and feel to a silver gelatin print and that is the reason I work in a darkroom. If one does not care about the look and feel of a silver gelatin print, then that is their own decision.

I started programming in October 1962. I have spent enough time behind computers. But more importantly I enjoy darkroom work and print both black & white and color prints.
 

frank

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Yes, but you also asked if there was an advantage to darkroom printing as opposed to inkjet printing. My answer is that there is a different look and feel to a silver gelatin print and that is the reason I work in a darkroom. If one does not care about the look and feel of a silver gelatin print, then that is their own decision.

I think you have me confused with someone else. I did not ask that.
 
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