Printing from slides in RA4 processor?

[Jim Blodgett]

I have been printing from negatives using RA4 chemistry in an old Kreonite processor. A friend asked if I could print using a slide as a source, instead of a negative.

Of course, since the paper I use is color reversal, I can't.

But then I got to wondering if there is such a thing as "color positive" paper that, would allow me to print from slides, using the same RA4 chemistry I currently use?

Thanks for any help.

 

[jim10219]

Nope. There used to be some paper that allowed you to print a slide, called Cibachrome or Ilfocrhome, but they don't make that stuff anymore. They also used a different chemistry. These days, you're only two options are to make an internegative on C41 film, or to scan it and print it digitally.

 

[BMbikerider]

In the past there was Cibachrome (Made by Ilford) but that went out of production some (many) years ago. I am sure someone on this forum would suggest it can be done, but with Cibachrome the colours were very very good and highly resistant to fading. However the Cibachrome chemicals, especially the early ones had to be treated with caution. I tried it once and never again.

 

[Jim Blodgett]

Hmmmm...Yeah, thanks. (Both of you) You would think with all the slide film people shot in the 70s and 80s there would be a market for paper like that, but I guess people can just scan the slide and send it digitally to a lab to print.

I guess if I really wanted I could project the slide, take a photo of the projected Image and print from that negative. Or send it to a lab...do labs do that? You send them a digital image and they send you film negatives? Am I talking crazy here?

 

[MattKing]

In addition to Cibachrome, there were also other to positive to positive processes, such as the Kodak R processes. They all - including Cibachrome - suffered from the contrast building problems that any positive to positive system suffers from.
There are things called film recorders that create negatives (or slides) from digital files. The movie industry still uses these a bit - most movies are in digital form when edited, even if they are going to be one of the smallish number of movies that are transferred back to film for projection.
You could use a slide copier setup to copy to negative film - there will still be a problem with contrast buildup.

 

[mshchem]

More than you may want to know
https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Colour_Darkroom/Early_Kodak_Ektachrome.html#anchor5

 

[darkroommike]

Your terminology is in error. Standard RA4 paper is negative to negative, not reversal. the Kodak, Ilford, et al papers for direct prints from slides were reversal papers.

Interestingly Kodak may have made a paper for direct prints from slides but printed all the slides sent to their lab on internegatives. No reason why you could make an internegative and print your friend's slide.

 

[mshchem]

I've got some really old Kodachrome prints. EK coated a lower contrast Kodachrome emulsion on a white acetate base for making direct prints from slides. I think these went away in the late 40's. I remember when the first digital minilabs showed up in town. These could make a RA4 print from a slide by scanning. It was amazing! Of course getting slides processed and back in a week was considered fast .

 

[cmacd123]

there was a reversal paper, but it predated RA4 so it would not likly be compatible if it was available. You could fake out a reversal process, (B&W first developer) stop,wash reexposure, RA 4 colour Dev, Bleach fix etc. but you might have to go through several boxes of paper to get anything usable. (foging bath might work instead of re-exposure as the first image might block the exposure of the middle layer.

there are ways to expose colour negative film to tame contrast. I belive the still internatative is long gone, but you MIGHT be able to do something with the Movie Intermediate stocks. (again on your own R&D program)

 

[Jim Blodgett]

More than one person mentioned "internegative" (I probably spelled it wrong). What is that?

As for me using the wrong terminology, no shock there, I am only surprised when I use the RIGHT terms.

 

[Poisson Du Jour]

You send them a digital image and they send you film negatives? Am I talking crazy here?

No, that is actually a thing, though not common now. It is digital-to-analogue writethrough, essentially a digital image is written to film. It was a common task during Ilfochrome Classic (new term for Cibachrome) printing in pro-level labs where digital files (uncompressed .tif) were output to film and then printed by traditional darkroom methodology, with masking as required.

 

[MattKing]

More than one person mentioned "internegative" (I probably spelled it wrong). What is that?

As for me using the wrong terminology, no shock there, I am only surprised when I use the RIGHT terms.

One photographs a slide on to a negative film - an inter-negative - which can then be used to print a print from.
Historically, there used to be available special inter-negative materials in a variety of sizes. Those materials were designed for the procedure and helped minimize problems like unwanted contrast. One could use larger versions - e.g. 4"x5" sheet film inter-negative material - and by proceeding that way, make larger enlargements. The larger materials made techniques like masking more practical.
There are no current special purpose inter-negative processes, but lower contrast and lower saturation films like Kodak Portra negative films can be used for the procedure. The re-purposed ECN process motion picture films are actually well suited in some ways - they are inherently lower in contrast - but for colour fidelity they should be processed in ECN chemicals, and their colour response curves are matched to motion picture projection stock (ECP), not RA4 papers.

 

[twelvetone12]

If you dig enough here on PHOTRIO there are various threads on RA4 reversal. I did it a lot, it worked ok for me with Fuji paper, but you will still get explosive contrast, color crossover and mottling no matter what. Depending on the slide you start with, results can go from totally unprintable to relatively nice. Don't expect the quality of an old ciba print or a modern scan.

 

[Jim Blodgett]

"You could use a slide copier setup to copy to negative film - there will still be a problem with contrast buildup."

I am not familiar with slide copiers, although a guy offered me one recently. It didn't occur to me I could transfer slides to negative film with it. Really regret not stopping and thinking for a minute about that. Thanks, I'm going to dig into this a bit.