Printing Film Photographs in the GTA / Southern Ontario

TerryM · Nov 28, 2017

Does anyone know of photographic businesses in the Hamilton / Greater Toronto Area which still print Optical Photographs from Film? All I can find is outfits which digitally scan & print Film Pictures.

If Film users cannot get Optical Photographs of their Pictures then there's no point to them continuing to use Film, and Film Photography will die out.

Rick A · Nov 28, 2017

Bob Carne has a company in that area, he posts on here often.

TerryM · Nov 29, 2017

Rick A said:
Bob Carne has a company in that area, he posts on here often.

Hi Rick,
I'm contacting Fuji Canada to see if they still operate their Canadian Lab. They still have a strong commitment to Film, and it's in their interest to provide developing and photographic printing.

MattKing · Nov 29, 2017

Bob Carnie's service is a high end custom service. You seem to be looking for an everyday, moderate price service suitable for amateur photographers. All those who provide sch services have long ago followed the industry trend and switched to a scan and print digital workflow. The only exception I can think of may be Blue Moon in Oregon.
You can achieve excellent results from/that sort of workflow.
I don't know about Ontario, but the Vancouver area still has a couple of pro labs that will do individual custom enlargements optically. That sort of work is not cheap.
FWIW, the machine printer I used to work on in the days before digital was optical, but it really didn't give you anything better in moderate size prints than the high volume scan and prints today. The quality of either depends a lot on the operator!

MattKing · Nov 29, 2017

For clarity, the scan and print machine prints I get are usually on real photographic paper. The light source that exposes them is controlled digitally.

TerryM · Nov 29, 2017

MattKing said:
For clarity, the scan and print machine prints I get are usually on real photographic paper. The light source that exposes them is controlled digitally.

This is what makes me so angry. Film users cannot get Optical Photographs while the top quality Digital Prints are in fact on Film Photographic Paper. This adds insult to injury. Going by my 135 snapshots printed on 4x6 at Walmart -- which uses top quality Digital equipment, the Digital Scan & Print is grainy, and lacks vibrancy of colour. If you can see the deficiencies of Digital in 4x6 then these deficiencies will only be magnified in larger prints like 8x10 & 11x14.

Thanks for the additional info on Optical Photos shops.

cowanw · Nov 29, 2017

I am in Hamilton. How much per hour would you pay me for what is now a bespoke service?

removedacct1 · Nov 29, 2017

TerryM said:
If Film users cannot get Optical Photographs of their Pictures then there's no point to them continuing to use Film, and Film Photography will die out.

If you want optical prints made you have two choices: find one of the very rare individuals who can/will do the work for you (and be prepared to pay a day rate for the service, as Bob charges) or set up your own workspace and DIY. Most people take the DIY route because they like doing the work. If you don’t want to do the work yourself, the alternatives are hard to find and expensive, for good reason.

spijker · Nov 29, 2017

TerryM said:
This is what makes me so angry. Film users cannot get Optical Photographs while the top quality Digital Prints are in fact on Film Photographic Paper. This adds insult to injury. Going by my 135 snapshots printed on 4x6 at Walmart -- which uses top quality Digital equipment, the Digital Scan & Print is grainy, and lacks vibrancy of colour. If you can see the deficiencies of Digital in 4x6 then these deficiencies will only be magnified in larger prints like 8x10 & 11x14.

I shot film only until about 2009 and my prints from colour negative film at the scan & print machines always looked fine. Certainly not grainy or flat colours. What film do you use? Is your film exposed properly? Underexposed colour negative film typically gives you grainy and flat prints. Talk to the machine operator at Walmart if he/she can identify the problem or try another lab.

jeffreyg · Nov 29, 2017

I print my black and white negatives both in my traditional wet darkroom and scan my negatives (120 and 4x5) with a thirteen year old Epson 4870 and print on high quality paper with an Epson 3880 and get excellent results. On the rare occasion I use color film I have it processed and printed at a local camera store. The prints are very well done. I use those prints as proofs and scan the ones I want to enlarge. It takes some work to color balance.
It might be possible Mr. Mester's negatives and/or the Walmart is not up to par. Try a different film and consider having it processed and printed at a different Walmart or camera shop etc.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

jmlynek · Nov 29, 2017

Join Gallery 44 in Toronto and do it yourself.

Ko.Fe. · Nov 29, 2017

TerryM said:
This is what makes me so angry. Film users cannot get Optical Photographs while the top quality Digital Prints are in fact on Film Photographic Paper. This adds insult to injury. Going by my 135 snapshots printed on 4x6 at Walmart -- which uses top quality Digital equipment, the Digital Scan & Print is grainy, and lacks vibrancy of colour. If you can see the deficiencies of Digital in 4x6 then these deficiencies will only be magnified in larger prints like 8x10 & 11x14.

Thanks for the additional info on Optical Photos shops.

This is why I ditched (almost) C-41 film and do my own bw wet prints. Most of the few renaming film labs I know here in Ontario, if not all of them, have ditched optical color printing some time ago for scans only.

mlindsay · Nov 29, 2017

burlington camera still prints mf and 35mm last time I was in there

1kgcoffee · Nov 29, 2017

Check out some of his videos on youtube. Bob is a master printer and it takes a lot of resources to keep a setup like that running. What you will get back will be a gallery quality print, with the best possible colour. You can't expect one of the most well known analog printers in Canada to run his lab like a drug store.

As suggested above, Blue Moon does optical printing of color negative and black and white, and the price is much lower than what Bob is charging. Still expensive relative to drug store prints, but the reason film fell out of fashion is because the cost of digital is so much cheaper. I don't know how anyone could go much cheaper and still turn a profit. Keeping a staff, a continuous flow of fresh chemicals and doing multiple proofs to get the final print. Digital may produce what to an enthusiast is inferior, that's why we are willing to put the time and money into our own darkrooms. I recently started doing RA-4 prints at home. It is not hard and the results are worth it.

You may be able to find an enthusiast, but it can't be done cheaply.

tezzasmall · Nov 30, 2017

It's interesting to read how different the workflow and prices are in other countries compared to the UK.

I don't know why prices are so different but if one picks up a photo mag in the UK, there are usually over a dozen ads offering d & p of b/w films at good prices. And of course there is the Ilford direct route.

Terry S

Ko.Fe. · Nov 30, 2017

mlindsay said:
burlington camera still prints mf and 35mm last time I was in there

From scans, OP is asking for optical prints.

spijker · Nov 30, 2017

tezzasmall said:
It's interesting to read how different the workflow and prices are in other countries compared to the UK.
I don't know why prices are so different but if one picks up a photo mag in the UK, there are usually over a dozen ads offering d & p of b/w films at good prices. And of course there is the Ilford direct route.
Terry S

The OP asks specifically about optical enlarging, not scan & print. Are there more labs in the UK that do true optical enlarging? Ilford also does scan & print, see http://www.harmanlab.com But I would trust Ilford that they deliver good quality prints although I've never used their lab service. Ilford prints BW prints on true BW (RC) paper, not on colour paper like most other labs do.

jmlynek · Nov 30, 2017

Northern Artists in Toronto list prints from negs in their pricelist. http://northernartists.com/Pricelist.pdf

MattKing · Nov 30, 2017

jmlynek said:
Northern Artists in Toronto list prints from negs in their pricelist. http://northernartists.com/Pricelist.pdf

I'd interpret those prices as being prices that include a scan and print from scan.
Normally nowadays if the prints are done optically, that is expressly indicated. And normally that is only offered for custom enlargements.

adelorenzo · Nov 30, 2017

The Lab Vancouver still does traditional prints according to their website. Starting at $22 for a 5x7 on RC paper.

Dinesh · Nov 30, 2017

Bob is one of the finest printers operating today, if you ever get a chance to either see him work or see his work, you would agree with me.

Imagine what he could charge if he was what most people would call "average" height?

On an unrelated note, who puts "Mr." in their title?

Bob Carnie · Nov 30, 2017

Good Point Dinesh.. I am going to get out my Saturday Night Fever Platforms and up my rate to $1500 a day .. thank you so much for the suggestion you rock.

TerryM · Nov 30, 2017

spijker said:
I shot film only until about 2009 and my prints from colour negative film at the scan & print machines always looked fine. Certainly not grainy or flat colours. ...

jeffreyg said:
I print my black and white negatives both in my traditional wet darkroom and scan my negatives (120 and 4x5) with a thirteen year old Epson 4870 and print on high quality paper with an Epson 3880 and get excellent results. On the rare occasion I use color film I have it processed and printed at a local camera store. The prints are very well done. I use those prints as proofs and scan the ones I want to enlarge. It takes some work to color balance ...

I didn't mean to imply that the Digital 4x6 Prints look crappy -- they're just not up to par with the Film / Optical process. I'm particular about authentic quality, and so I want the top colour & resolution quality which Film offers. The Digital process artificially saturates each Pixel with colour which looks good, but don't be deceived into thinking that this saturation of colour represents quality. It represents the 'appearance' of quality.

P. S. to Jeff: Is it worth the time to do Digital colour balancing rather than just use an Enlarger? Is the Digital process saving you time?

jmlynek said:
Join Gallery 44 in Toronto and do it yourself.

Is Gallery 44 a cooperative? This sounds extremely interesting. Unfortunately I don't have an easy way to get to Toronto at present.

1kgcoffee said:
...
..., but the reason film fell out of fashion is because the cost of digital is so much cheaper. I don't know how anyone could go much cheaper and still turn a profit. Keeping a staff, a continuous flow of fresh chemicals and doing multiple proofs to get the final print. ...

Is Digital really cheaper than Film? The top quality Digital Photos are printed on Film Photographic Paper, and so there's no savings there. The cost of a Digital Camera is much more than a Film Camera, and Digital Camera's won't last as long as Film before their electronics go haywire. Digital Cameras also consume a lot of batteries which counters the savings from not buying Film. / Kodak's reprehensible decision to close down Qualex Photofinishing is what made it impossible for Film users in small communities to get reasonably priced Developing and Optical Photos. The Qualex closure contributed to the downward spiral in Film usage.

jeffreyg · Dec 1, 2017

Terry

I don't do my own color processing or optical printing only black and white in my darkroom. When I do an occasional roll of color I send it out for small prints that I use for proofs. If I want a larger print I scan that negative and print with my printer. I am not concerned about time since the end result is what counts for me be it in the darkroom or in front of the computer.

I feel each is a different medium and treat them as such. I print B&W in silver gelatin on fiber paper and pt/pd on Arches Platine. Digital on Hahnemuhle cotton rag baryta paper. I have developed a personal system for B&W digital printing that is giving me comparable results to "exhibition" quality silver gelatin prints. My color is usually family snapshots.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

tezzasmall · Dec 1, 2017

spijker said:
The OP asks specifically about optical enlarging, not scan & print. Are there more labs in the UK that do true optical enlarging?

Without a photo mag to hand, I can not quote directly, but I believe that a lot of individuals in the UK put ads in photo magazines to offer there services to 'optically enlarge' other peoples b/w films at reasonable prices.

Terry S

Printing Film Photographs in the GTA / Southern Ontario

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