Print washer advice...

Hi everyone,

I've almost finished my deep update to my darkroom, but now that I'm cleaning I 've noticed a bad news... My old 8x10 print washer is broke! Maybe during the job a carpenter broke it or maybe during the move, by the way now I'm without it.
So far I used to printing on 8x10 only, but now I'm shooting in two format 8x10 and 8x20".
Althought my print washer won't damage I have to buy a new one.
Now my questions:
- What format for 8x20? 16x20 or build it for the format?
- Can I use, in case 16x20, to wash also my 8x10? or buy two ones
- A 16x20 print washer can wash two 8x20 in each spaces?

Thanks a lot for every advices...

Stefano

Yes you can use the 16x20 wash your 8x10s - I own an 11x14 printwasher and wash my FB 8x10 often in it.
For RC prints, I just use my laundry sink and wash for about 5 mins.

Alistair Inglis sells purpose made ULF Print Washers - Dead Link Removed

Good luck

Martin

Ciao Stefano,

A few Questions:

Print and film washer?
You say that you're "shooting" 8x20... do you mean to say that you're "printing" to 8x20?
For 8x20 printing, what is your actual paper size?
Fiber base prints or RC paper only?

I see that you shoot large format 8x10 film. Are you now also shooting 8x20 film?
If so, are you looking for suggestions for a "film" washer (instead of a "print" washer)?
You mention: "build it for the format"... are you able to make your own washer?

I have built many washers for film and also paper in many sizes using acrylic plastic.
I can offer suggestions and pictures, if you're interested.

Regards

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

Ciao Reinhold,

Right questions,
I use only fiber base printes(azo, Lodima), my actual paper size is 8x20.
I use both film format 8x10 and 8x20 and usually I wash my film in tray, even if I tought to use a film washer especially when I have a huge quantity of films to wash.
I'm able to build it, me and my father did lots of DIY.
Thank you for your offer, if you can send some suggestions and picture I could start to think seriously to build a new one, maybe for film...

Regards

Stefano

Stefano:

Here are two washers I use when processing 8x20 films and prints.

My first step is a one minute rinse against a corrugated backdrop.
Then into a "holding" washer, until all negatives (or prints) are done.
Then into the vertical slot washer for the final "archival" wash.

The flat (horizontal) intermediate "hold" washer: (made from 4mm acrylic sheet).
700 x 310 x 76 mm deep (27-1/2 x 12-1/4 x 3 inches deep)
This washer has a series of ridges on the bottom to prevent the film from laying directly on the bottom.
In the photo, the ridges are some aluminum strips, you could use acrylic rods, for example
A double end directs slowly running water under the inner end, and spills out over the outer end.
Shuffle the sheets occasionally to keep them separated.
This design maintains a constant water depth, and ensures water flow at all depths.

The vertical "archival" washer: (walls are made from 10mm (3/8") acrylic sheet).
The overall dimensions are:
710 long x 310 high x 220 mm wide (28 long x 12-1/2 high x 9 inches wide)
This washer has a central divider, permitting partial operation if only a few sheets are to be washed.
Water can be directed to only one or both sides.

Each side is:
600 long x 100 wide x 250 mm water depth (as determined by the height of the central divider)
Each side has a "basket" holding 5 sheets in individual slots.
The manifolds direct a gentle stream of water into each individual slot.
Double ends, similar to the holding washer as described above, drain from the bottom as described earlier.
Water depth is regulated by rotating the drain pipes.

The baskets are 1.5 mm thick acrylic, separated by acetal tubes and stainless steel screws.
The prints or negatives rest on the bottom spacers, not on the washer floor.
The baskets may be lifted occasionally for agitation.

These examples should give you some ideas for designing washers suitable to your own circumstances. If you need some advise regarding cutting and assembling acrylic, let me know... it's kind of fun.

Reinhold

www.classicBWphoto.com

Stefano,

Here are some fuzzy pictures showing details on the washers:

Photo 1 shows the double end arrangement.
The inner wall has some gaps between the wall and the bottom,
The water flows out of the main compartment through the gaps.
Since the incoming water is at the top of the opposite end, there is "cross-flow".
Shallow notches in the top of the outer wall height determines water depth.
This unit will not self-drain if the water is turned off.

Photos 2 & 3 show the vertical washers print basket assembly details.
The nylon/acetal tubes are "standoffs" (spacers) used in the electronics industry.
The screws are standard US #6-32 size flat head machine screws.
A metric equivalent would be an m3 size.

Instead of the removable basket arrangement, you could create a series of slots at both ends of the main compartment and insert the acrylic sheets directly.
Make the slots so that the sheets can be easily removed if necessary.
Sawed slots are simple, but the end wall plastic must be thick enough.
Alternately, you can use a series of plastic strips to form the slots.
I have a 16x20 and a 24 x 14 (two 11x14 vertical prints) washer made this way.

There are a lot of designs possibilities open to you with acrylic plastic sheet.

Have fun.

Ciao

Reinhold

I bought a 10 gallon acrylic aquarium and converted it into a print washer. It will hold a dozen 11x14 prints. For dividers I used vertical plastic file holders from a stationary store and epoxied them in place. A small hole drilled to the size of a hose fitting near the bottom allows entrance of the wash water. The whole thing cost about $20.

Hi Reinhold, Thank you for photos and advice, they are very useful..
At the week end I'm going to draw a project with your information,looking for acrylic to my DIY store,altought I should finish my last electric part of my update darkroom...
Thanks again..
ps.: I look at you web site, very nice, lots of information and very good photos!!!

Stefano

About acrylic acquarium I thought also this possibility, but looked at a very big fish store I didn't find one for my idea, so I didn't get it. I think that it's a very good choise, easy to modify with a minimal works.
Thanks

Stefano

Versalab!

Hi Reinhold,

I rally happy you posted the instructions and pictures, been thinking about this project. I have a question though, how are you cutting the plexi? The reason I ask, I cut some plexi on a table saw about 2 weeks ago, went fairly well but chipped a bit. I think the blades were old or are not the proper blades. I've seen some clean edges on plexi items, non-professional stuff, and it looked pretty good, mine was not that good.

Thanks

Erick

No brainer - Versalab.

When it comes down to it, looks don't mean much when you're just trying to get something washed effectively and don't want to worry about how fragile your print washer is (a Versalab is not fragile at all). It's a tub with a siphon, fill line, and separators. It doesn't get more simple than that and it does what it's built to do.

I have taken a look at Versalab but being stationed overseas...that big a box isnt accepted by USPS, sooo looking at the DiY option. Besides with easy access to the a full blown woodshop, mediocre wood working skillz and a more than willing to help woodshop manager...all I need is glue and plexi. I probably need to source a table saw blade that cuts plexi correctly OR if there is a better way to do it with a band saw or...?

./e

Despite being a total newbie, I was able to make a print washer for absolutely nothing. I used a plastic filing tub, or any suitable sized rubbermaid-like-device would work great. I drilled (actually used a hot solder gun) holes in the bottom and a few near the top for overflow control. It's pretty easy to get the right amount of flow, just drill more holes than you need and stop them with cork until you reach a good rate of flow. I put my hose in a 1000mL graduate to slow water turbulence and I place prints in a simple vertical document holder that I also punched full of holes.

It's not perfect, and a nice washer would be luxurious if you can afford it, but this is the kind of project where DIY reigns supreme, IMHO.

cheers!