Pricing Portraits

Solarize · Jun 28, 2010

Tom Kershaw said:
Interesting post. Would you mind indicating how "large" (quantity, print size etc.) your jobs tend to be?

Tom

Sure. I would usually deliver between four and eight framed prints, between 5x4 and 20x24 in size. Unfortunately, selling anything much bigger than a 12x16, framed to roughly 18x22 is hard. It boils down to the restrained taste of customers... It just isn't that fashionable in my market to have very large prints of the family. In the US I hear of 16x20 being considered very modest, but to clients here it is huge.

My pricing is structured so that small prints still return well (very important in the UK!). I had always printed in the darkroom, but I'm cutting back a bit and doing some digital printing, with platinum prints the newest, most luxurious product. I also do the framing myself. The frames are typically made from Cherry or Wenge, with museum grade glass, mountboard etc - so the emphasis is on having a few photographs, but printed and framed to the very highest standards.

jp498 · Jun 28, 2010

I use a photo basics 5-1 reflector. It folds up into the size of medium pizza pan. When let out, it's 40" in diameter. It has a choice of reflective surfaces (gold silver, white, etc..) it also has a white screen which is good for producing diffuse shade on a sunny day. (good for outdoor product shots)

It is true you need often someone to hold it, but that goes for any tall outdoor lighting unless there is either zero wind or it's so heavy you don't want to lug it. You could clamp it to a spare tripod, but that's sort of a last resort. You really don't need too complex a lighting outdoors. A fill flash 1.5 stops under and a reflector are about all you need. You don't want to eliminate shadows so much as control their contrast range to something that's acceptable for your end results. If someone comes along with a P&S digicam to distract your subject, put them in charge of the reflector. Tell them where to stand and physically help them aim it till the subject notes that the reflector is shining in their face. Thank them and tell them not to move. Then you can do your work. Instead of being a copy cat, they are part of the process!

Solarize · Jun 28, 2010

This sort of thing, Tom. 5x4 platinum print, float mounted in a wenge frame with schott mirrogard museum glass.

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

Solarize said:
Technique aside, the prices you have mentioned are nowhere near viable as a sustainable business model. I don't care how low your overheads are... once you have covered marketing, promotion, film costs, fuel, insurance and so on, not to mention your time, you will be losing money.

What type of insurance do you speak of that I would need?

Solarize · Jun 28, 2010

I can only talk about the UK, but there will be crossover. Equipment insurance first off. Public liability second; just in case someone should get injured (or something broken) while you work... and professional indemnity should you fail to provide the services contracted.

Just re-reading what I wrote earlier, I hope it didn't come across harsh or too forward? There are just so many hidden costs involved, that I wish I had known of when starting out and establishing my pricing.

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

Not too harsh at all. You gave great advice. Thanks.

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

Anyone in the US have any comments on insurance over here?

MattKing · Jun 28, 2010

From the Canadian (common-law provinces) perspective, I would agree with Solarize, except I would re-order the priorities:
1) Public liability (in case someone should get injured (or something broken) while you work);
2) Professional indemnity (in case you should you fail to provide the services contracted) and
3) Equipment insurance.

I would also check my auto insurance, to make sure it covers you when you are working commercially.

Experience with issues like insurance is one good reason to investigate professional photographers' associations.

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

In the very, very beginning trying this out to see if it will work for me with family, freinds, and freinds of freinds, should I go get insurence now?

Solarize · Jun 28, 2010

MattKing said:
From the Canadian (common-law provinces) perspective, I would agree with Solarize, except I would re-order the priorities:
1) Public liability (in case someone should get injured (or something broken) while you work);
2) Professional indemnity (in case you should you fail to provide the services contracted) and
3) Equipment insurance.

I would also check my auto insurance, to make sure it covers you when you are working commercially.

Experience with issues like insurance is one good reason to investigate professional photographers' associations.

Oh for sure. I didn't mean to imply order of importance in my list, although it did read like it. Public liability should be mandatory and the first thing you get.
Starting out, you could forgo professional indemnity. For weddings, commercial and events not a chance, but for portraits which can be repeated, you could do without initially.
Equipment insurance... well are you willing to risk it? Make sure you have backups. I work with at least 3 camera bodies.

Cheryl Jacobs · Jun 28, 2010

Regarding pricing:

I work only in B&W, almost entirely medium format, and I use available light only, all on location. That means extremely minimal overhead and equipment costs. My base session fee for the Denver metro area is $350US, and 8x10 fiber prints start at $150 unframed. I also sell coffee table books (those are a hybrid process) for $1500 each. My average sale is typically a combination of prints and books, and generally come in around $2500 - $5000, not usually less but sometimes more.

Remember the tricky issues of perceived value. Charge too little, and your work will be seen as cheap.

- CJ

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

Is it possible to have them sign some kind of contract that says that I am not resposable for anything that could happen to them or is insurance still needed?

MattKing · Jun 28, 2010

Ektagraphic said:
Is it possible to have them sign some kind of contract that says that I am not resposable for anything that could happen to them or is insurance still needed?

Who are you going to get to sign your contract (known as a waiver)?

Using weddings as an example, and a poorly placed and easily tripped over lighting cord as a further example, insurance protects you from claims from anyone - friends, relatives, caterers, flower delivery persons, wedding party, mothers of the bride! - whereas your contract will only protect you from claims from the person(s) signing the contract, and then only if the contract is carefully prepared, and if the party signing the contract is one who is likely to be bound by its provisions (adult, competent, and someone who both benefits from the contract, and who can be shown to have knowingly and voluntarily agreed to the restriction of rights provided for in the contract).

Some of this is jurisdiction specific (i.e. it applies here, but maybe not fully where you are) but it would be unwise to assume that it wouldn't apply to you.

My suggestion would be that you speak with an insurance broker in your area who is familiar with commercial insurance for service based industries. It may be that the broker who supplies you with insurance for your car and your residence may also be able to help you with what you need.

fotch · Jun 28, 2010

Ektagraphic said:
Is it possible to have them sign some kind of contract that says that I am not resposable for anything that could happen to them or is insurance still needed?

That depends.

Wording of contract.
Laws of your state.

If your concerned, and I would be, pay a good attorney to draft one for you.

Cheaper boiler plate contract available on line or at a stationary store, you won't know until you need the protection, if it works.

This is one of the cost of doing business.

Good Luck.

Ektagraphic · Jun 28, 2010

This is all so new to me as I am not even of age yet. I'll have to look into the insurence end. I have a freind who just had a contract made up by an attorney and I'll talk to them about it. MattKing-The person that would sign a waiver would be the person having their portrait taken. I have no plan to do weddings or large functions. Simply outdoor portraits for now.

fotch · Jun 29, 2010

You might want to explore having your lawyer form a small business corporation and being an employee of the corporation. The corporation may ofter some shielding for you.

MattKing · Jun 29, 2010

Oh, and be sure to avoid becoming discouraged .

Ektagraphic · Jun 29, 2010

Thanks for all the kind words on both threads mattking

fotch · Jun 29, 2010

Hey Ektagraphic, all your questions and concerns are intelligent and it is good to be aware of what is needed to be successful. Having been in business for 35+ years, what is routine in setting up a business is just going to be new to someone just starting out.

Taking pictures is the easy part, staying in business takes commitment. Good Luck.

Ektagraphic · Jun 29, 2010

Thanks to you too fotch I'm new at the world still being in High School I have lots to learn and pick up along the way.

fotch · Jun 29, 2010

Holy smokes, I thought your were in college. Well, age doesn't matter. Well, on second thought, young is better than old but old does beat the alternative.

Ektagraphic · Jun 29, 2010

If I told you I was a freshmen this year what will you think now

Solarize · Jun 29, 2010

Ektagraphic said:
Is it possible to have them sign some kind of contract that says that I am not resposable for anything that could happen to them or is insurance still needed?

You would need to consult a lawyer/insurance broker for definitives. Public liability I would not work without. It is essential and not too expensive. Professional indemnity I would work without, but for individual family commissions only, and with a stipulation in signed contract that I will refund any payment (but no more) in the case of total photographic failure. It doesn't help legal costs if a dispute goes to court, but I would think such an eventuality is incredibly unlikely. If the event is not repeatable or there are extra (say, long travel and overnight) expenses involved, you should be totally insured.

As Cheryl pointed out creating perceived value is tricky. Just remember that if you are cheap, your clients will be cheap too. You can't on the one hand talk about the virtues of film, and work with cut prices on the other. Cheap and quality are not compatible.

Shangheye · Jun 29, 2010

To price something you need to start with what market you are targeting. Do you have an idea what you are looking for as a clientelle? That determines three key factors:

- Size of the market (and what part of it is accessible...understand your competition)
- What their preferences are (photographic style, Media etc)
- Current price points in the market for that sort of work

Then taking this information build up a cost model of what you need to buy in assets, what you need to spend on consumable (not only photographic materials, but also gasoline for transport, any equipment or location you might rent etc) and what your time is worth. That last one is key, since time IS money as the old addage goes. Finally put an overhead on top for time and materials associated with marketing and sales, Insurance etc. Then build a cost model that considers all these things. Consider current market price points for the service and the prints (assume some print sales, but make sure your service price covers you basic overheads and a portion of your time) and do the sum against your costs. This is your likely profit, then make allowances for tax you would need to pay, and the result is your take home profit after tax. Does that number sound reasonable? Remember, this is the money AFTER you have been paid the value of your time, i.e. it's what is called your Discretionary Cash Flow...what you can spend on whatever you like. If the answer is yes, then this is worth it. If not then look for an alternative pricing model/point or a different market segment.

For example, if there was a market for polaroid simple snapshots in the street and 10 people a day were prepared to pay $40 for each for a portrait of them, and I only need to take one shot for each portrait and hand over the print, this would be a very profitable business...an unlikley market, but I am trying to give you an idea about why the market matters. Understand the market, you understand the business.

By the way people always struggle with what their time is worth...well take what is called an opportunity cost...what job could you be doing in the time spent and what would you earn. Certainly as a minimum it would be minimum wage.

Good luck..

K

markbarendt · Jun 29, 2010

Ektagraphic said:
Is it possible to have them sign some kind of contract that says that I am not resposable for anything that could happen to them or is insurance still needed?

No, not normally, insurance is still needed if you are going to be in a formal business.

That said if you are working for "film, paper, & chemicals" doing portraits at a street fair your risk is probably low.

If you take a wedding job though...

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