Prices on Medium Format Film Gear

[braxus]

35mm has gone up a little bit, but the big price increases are on medium format film cameras. I was searching for a Fuji GW690 camera and last year it was selling for $400-500 Canadian. Now the junk cameras go for $500 and the better units $700-800. Pentax 67II cameras in the past 10 years have trippled in price. I bought my 67II a little less then 10 years ago for a little over $1000. Now its between 3000 to 4000 dollars. Older 67 cameras have gone up a bit as well, depending on which version of the original model you get (meaning its age). Other medium format film cameras also have gone up. I dont know whats fueling this price increase, other then millenials playing with film for the first time. Im glad I got my cameras when I did, except I just purchased both a GSW690 and GW690 cameras in the past couple months at current prices.

 

[awty]

Blessed are those who bought early.
You'll probably find these fanboy cameras are being bought by older people with a disposable income.
All the youngsters I see with film cameras usually have something that needs to be held together with duct tape.
The price will go up while people are prepared to pay a high price for what they perceive will make them a better photographer.
Fortunate for me there is no apparent benefit to what camera I use, except I like to constantly change cameras to keep me a state of confusion.

 

[wiltw]

Prices up...only in a relative sense. Keep in mind that $3000 kits fell to $300 on the used market. So 'going up' is relative to the bottom, but still depreciation of 84% from new rather than --90%

 

[reddesert]

This has been discussed in a few threads, IMO several factors are converging:
- modest film revival.
- drying up of the gradual stream of surplus gear offloaded by professionals who moved away from film.
- changes in demand and supply due to pandemic. Lots of people shopping on line, few people cleaning out their basements and selling gear online, or direct to dealers, or at swap meets to dealers.

It has been noted that major merchants (try KEH as an example since their inventory is easy to browse) are way short on stock for gear - maybe for everything, but especially medium format - right now. As wiltw says, it's still cheap compared to when it was in active professional use. The lack of supply strikes me as the unusual and probably pandemic-related part.

 

[braxus]

I watch a lot of Youtube videos on photography, and in almost 90% of them, its 20-30 year olds buying these cameras. So that is why I said Millenials. I dont see as many 50+ year olds still using film in the videos, but there are some. Most of the people my age are buying less expensive film cameras and using them in their darkroom setups. Shoot Like A Boss is an example.

 

[abruzzi]

Similar to 35mm, demand has gone up, but unlike 35mm supply is much more constrained since most medium format (especially those thinge that are increasing in price) was fairly uncommon, mostly owned by pro photographers.

 

[cramej]

Now, I wouldn't want to accuse anyone of price fixing, but the Japanese sellers control a lot of the used camera market on ebay. Other sellers follow suit with the prices the Japanese sellers set. With so many cameras of similar condition, it's easy to find the price that the market will bear and run with it. It's a supply/demand and fear/greed cycle that happens in nearly every kind of economic system. Supply decreases, prices rise, consumers fear that they'll miss out, pay higher price, sellers see demand, raise price again.....and so on. It's like the old pile-ons in football (American for you Ronaldo fans) - everyone wants to jump on the bandwagon and will pay whatever it takes to get on because of the perceived scarcity. Then, no one will admit to wagoneering when prices fall and they jump off muttering to themselves "I got a good deal, really, I did."

 

[Sirius Glass]

Evidently KEH cannot get cameras and lenses because no one goes out to trade cameras and lenses to them because of COVID, hopefully this will get better soon.

 

[Pieter12]

I watch a lot of Youtube videos on photography, and in almost 90% of them, its 20-30 year olds buying these cameras. So that is why I said Millenials. I dont see as many 50+ year olds still using film in the videos, but there are some. Most of the people my age are buying less expensive film cameras and using them in their darkroom setups. Shoot Like A Boss is an example.

Maybe not that many 50+ year-olds make youtube videos.

 

[Paul Howell]

Regardless of who is buying, MF was not manufactured in the same number as 35mm, (well not counting box cameras and some consumer grade TLR) and many of us bought when prices were down and are reselling. I have 3 Kowa 66s and 3 Mamiya Universals which I have no intention of selling anytime soon.

 

[MattKing]

Maybe not that many 50+ year-olds make youtube videos.

Or, in relative terms, view YouTube videos on using cameras.
As an illustrative example, a screengrab of my computer folder with scanned manuals and other written resources:

 

[ic-racer]

I see a sharp decline in prices. For example I paid $1800 ($3300 in today's dollars) in 1993 for a used, old style Distagon 40mm. It is in fantastic condition with caps and original box. Going price today about $500. In fact most of my medium format equipment has shown a similar decline in value. I paid $1200 for a 6008i in 2012 and now they go for $600 etc.

 

[Alan Gales]

Maybe not that many 50+ year-olds make youtube videos.

I'm 59. My daughter said that I'm always on the forums talking about cameras, I should start a YouTube channel.

Not my thing!

 

[Luckless]

More people using cameras = fewer cameras sitting around being unused, and the 'cheap ones' are bought quickly.

More people using cameras also = more cameras being broken and becoming unusable. And people who actively use their cameras that they've broken tend to want to find replacements... Which means even more 'cheap ones' selling faster and not hanging around on the market.

I watch a lot of Youtube videos on photography, and in almost 90% of them, its 20-30 year olds buying these cameras. So that is why I said Millenials. I dont see as many 50+ year olds still using film in the videos, but there are some. Most of the people my age are buying less expensive film cameras and using them in their darkroom setups. Shoot Like A Boss is an example.

Oldest Millennials are turning 40... I'm middle of the pack, and I assure you that most Millennials would have played with film when they were younger if their family did any photography at all because that was all there was on the market when we were kids.

Only the very youngest Millennials from the techiest of families are likely to have started straight with digital options.

There might be loads of us coming back to film, or first using film in a serious manner, but film was still the standard/only option in photography in our childhoods.

 

[eli griggs]

Medium Format seems to have exploded in prices and where I would see Hasselblad El, Elm, and similar going in good working kip for a couple of hundred to three, U.S. Dollars, a year or so ago, their prices seemed to double overnight, which threw a wrench in my ability to find on my budget, as a second CM type camera.

Film backs for the Hasselblad, and just about anything else made for the original "V" series from the 500 Cm and C T* on up, has risen way out of common sense and it's no just Hipsters and Decor Fiends but Young Folks as well, and some of them are doing very good work, with minimum kit.

I do no know if I'll be able to get the back up 500CM type I want, in my useful lifetime, but these cameras and lenses are only part of the Story of Pandemic Medium Format and there are plenty for serious shooters that will eventually go on to and in the hands of a couple more generations, down the road, so if you find your 'dream' camera, under any label and any vintage, be happy that by keeping them and caring for them, you have the ability to become an important chapter in the Legend of truly great Analog Cameras.

Sorry for the ramble and Godspeed to all,
Eli

 

[Pieter12]

Modern medium format film gear was pretty much made for professionals and advanced, serious amateurs. Expensive and made in lower quantities than 35mm. When pros adopted digital, there was a glut of these cameras on the market, but that has since pretty much dried up. So there are fewer and more expensive cameras on the market today. Also, some pros who held on to their gear still remember the high prices they paid and want to get some of that investment back--they'd rather hold on than sell at what they deem bargain-basement, insulting prices.

 

[gone]

I've learned my lesson on this. Buy cheap as chips SLR's (got my N70 for $13 plus shipping) and buy expensive, classic glass that holds it's value. I bought a Leica R 90 Elmarit for $375 w/ a beater Leicaflex Standard that was thrown in as a rear lens cap. I'll shoot the Elmarit lens on my N70 w/ an adapter.

There's a lot of undervalued 35mm cameras that are still very affordable. Lenses are another thing. $300 is too much for a FD 85 1.8 (nearly all are Japanese sellers, and I don't know what they're thinking on these prices), but what I paid for the Elmarit is about what I paid for one 10 years ago, which is just bizarre.

I don't know about anyone else here, but it's the cost of film, paper and chemicals that are really hurting my wallet, not the price of cameras.

 

[shutterlight]

The going rate for Mamiya 7s (both I and IIs) has become ridiculous. I've had my Mamiya 7 (original version) since January of 2012, when I paid $550 in a private sale for it. It was in great condition, so it wasn't a beater or anything like that. I initially bought a 65/4 in EX condition from KEH for about $635 or so, and later that year acquired an 80/4 in either bargain or EX condition for about $615 (it looked immaculate to me). It goes without saying that I could not possibly replicate those prices today, unless it was done privately with someone who either didn't know what they were doing, or who was knowingly doing me a favor.

They're great cameras, but also somewhat finicky and prone to various issues. Paying around $2,000 for an original body now, and close to $3,000 for a II, seems almost insane to me. I've posted before about possibly selling mine, though I haven't done so yet. I'm wondering though if it makes sense to leave that kind of money on the table, as I haven't been using it much. Of course, you can go awhile without using something and then start using it a lot, so who knows what the future will bring. I do know that I couldn't afford what I have now if I didn't already have it.

On a 35mm note, I just last night looked up what I paid for the Nikon F100 I bought in 2010 in EX+ condition. It was $199. The same camera and condition now is going for about $450 or so.

 

[Pieter12]

One of the ironic facets of the medium-format prices today is that most of those cameras will need at least a CLA if not a repair in the near future. And there are fewer parts and techs working on them, that can be an expensive and lengthy process. Sometimes not even possible.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

So that is why I said Millenials. I dont see as many 50+ year olds still using film in the videos, but there are some.

Other than film lovers here on Photrio and some other sites like 35MMC, many older ("mature") photographers have completely dropped film work. I still see trolling such as "I'd rather have root canal than use film." It is a younger generation that has fueled the revival in film. The old geezers like their digital stuff and the ability to buy new toys.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

The Pentax 67 is demanding 4 digit price tags because every bearded hipster wearing a plaid shirt and skinny jeans on YouTube is telling everyone to buy one. Of all the MF cameras out there, the P67 has the most “ive only had it a week but it’s the best camera ever here’s my uninformed review” videos.

 

[Steve Goldstein]

They're great cameras, but also somewhat finicky and prone to various issues.

Could you elaborate? I've been using a Mamiya 7 (original version) since I bought one used with the 80mm from KEH in 2000. Since then I've acquired a full set of lenses and a second body. Each body has had one CLA since purchase, performed by MAC Group in both cases as part of a conversion to the M7-II viewfinder to improve focusing contrast. I've carried these cameras on a couple of dozen international trips and far more trips within the US and have never found them to be particularly fussy or problematic. They just work, at least for me.

The only issue I've ever heard about is the internet claim that operating mechanism for the M7-II's light shield curtain isn't as robust as that on the original M7. I don't know if this is true. What are the other problems you allude to?

 

[jbrubaker]

I recently bought 2 Mamiya 6 cameras. One with a 50mm and one with the 75mm. My reasoning is that if one breaks I'm still covered. I worry about the availability and cost of repairs. Since I'm 71 years old these cameras will probably work as long as I still care about using them. I also have a Pentax 67ll and several lenses. This is a really nice handling camera and probably worth the current prices. ---jb.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Four digit prices for Pentax 6X7's? - hardly, unless you feel you absolutely need a mint II version with its extra handful of bells n' whistles. I prefer the previous ordinary MLU body anyway. The most common potential problem in otherwise clean used versions of those is that the light seal gasket material sometimes gets gummy and needs replacement. You should ask about that specifically when seeking to purchase one. But replacing the light seals yourself is fairly easy to do, if needed. Avoid the very early bodies without the mirror lock-up feature. Many superb P67 lenses are an utter bargain these days, even in immaculate condition. There are a few notable exceptions like the fast 75/2.8 and the optically stunning EDIF series of telephotos, which still command high prices.

 

[Cholentpot]

Mamiya M645s are through the roof. I got mine from a Kodak Club member in Rochester. I didn't even want it, I just wanted the darkroom easel and the guy threw in the camera. This was 5 years ago.

Press cameras are still cheap relatively.