Price of rangefinders.

[cerber0s]

I’d live to get my hands on an interchangeable lens rangefinder, but the prices are insane. Leicas are of course way over my budget, so I was looking at the Leica/Minolta CL and the Voigtländer Bessa R2 and R3. They’re all pretty expensive, a Bessa R2C starts at around $1000 if I import it from Japan. My questions is: Do you expect the prices to go up, down, or stay? Should I hold on getting one, or get one soon?

 

[Steve Goldstein]

Do you expect the prices to go up, down, or stay?

Yes

Should I hold on getting one, or get one soon?

If you want one, get one. There are plenty of choices at all price points if you stick with LTM. Choices are more limited and expensive if you want M-bayonet, which seems to be what you’re focused on. I’d avoid other proprietary mount$.

The advantage of the M-mount cameras and the later Canon LTMs (and probably others though I’m hardly an expert) is “normal” film loading. I had a lovely Leica IIIc, given to me by the granddaughter of the original owner, that I sold because I found bottom loading to be a PITA and the viewfinder was too squinty. I put the money into a Canon L2.

 

[rcphoto]

I had this same debate over my GW670II. I finally decided to buy one at a price I could live with and then stopped looking at listings. I happily acquired a like new version for what I perceived as a very reasonable price and haven't looked at prices since.

 

[BradS]

Seems like a Leica M2 in good user condition can be had for not a whole lot more than those other alternatives. I'd save a little bit longer and get the real thing.

 

[cerber0s]

Seems like a Leica M2 in good user condition can be had for not a whole lot more than those other alternatives. I'd save a little bit longer and get the real thing.

I guess both the Leica M3 and M4 are within budget as well. If in well used but working condition.

 

[Kodachromeguy]

I think rangefinder camera prices will rise:

1. The interest in film photography is continuing, despite snide comments from old geezer D users who profess to hate film.
2. Many fixed lens rangefinder cameras are failing.
3. Leica is the only company (as far as I know) making new bodies now.
4. Older interchangeable lens bodies gradually fail or owners lose/discard them.

This may be countered by:

1. Collectors die and nice cameras and lenses emerge from their closets or safe deposit boxes.
2. Formerly forgotten or ignored cameras get repaired.

Summary: the price trend is up.

 

[bluechromis]

I have been tempted to get more rangefinders. But I have heard people say that typically the rangefinder focus mechanism will fall out of adjustment over time and need to be realigned. If that is true, I wonder how many of the people jumping onto the fad of rangefinders realize it?

 

[cerber0s]

I have been tempted to get more rangefinders. But I have heard people say that typically the rangefinder focus mechanism will fall out of adjustment over time and need to be realigned. If that is true, I wonder how many of the people jumping onto the fad of rangefinders realize it?

I realigned the focusing screen on my Konica C35 the other day, it was a 2 minute job.

 

[bluechromis]

I realigned the focusing screen on my Konica C35 the other day, it was a 2 minute job.

Good to know. If someone gets a given rangefinder, how would they find out how to adjust the focus? Get a service manual?

 

[cerber0s]

Good to know. If someone gets a given rangefinder, how would they find out how to adjust the focus? Get a service manual?

I’d say google is your friend. I think the Leicas are significantly more difficult than the konica.

 

[GregY]

I have been tempted to get more rangefinders. But I have heard people say that typically the rangefinder focus mechanism will fall out of adjustment over time and need to be realigned. If that is true, I wonder how many of the people jumping onto the fad of rangefinders realize it?

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. I've used Leica Ms both new & used for decades and never had any issues.

 

[awty]

Select the type of lenses you want to use and then get a functioning camera to mount it on. Camera has little effect on the picture, its all about the lens and the user.

 

[JerseyDoug]

I’d say google is your friend. I think the Leicas are significantly more difficult than the konica.

I have no personal experience adjusting a Leica M focus but the LTM Leicas are very easy. I did a couple of them myself before the benign essential tremor in my hands got too bad.

 

[btaylor]

I wonder how many of the people jumping onto the fad of rangefinders realize it?

Is this a thing?

ALL old film cameras will need service at some point in their lives.

You can pick up a Canon 7 for peanuts that uses inexpensive LTM optics. It will take great pictures if you can. Or you can get on the Leica bandwagon- the choice is yours.

 

[AZD]

My advice would be to ask yourself why you want an interchangeable lens rangefinder. I’m not saying you shouldn’t want one, but camera lust often begins with an idea of what you could do if only you had something different… What does it offer that you don’t have now? Compactness? Quiet operation? Ease of use? Uninterrupted viewing? More or less so than what you already have?

If your question wasn’t specifically about interchangeable lens rangefinders I’d suggest picking up the first decent Spotmatic or Nikon SLR to come your way and call it good. If money is a concern you’ll be money ahead no matter which way you look at it.

After considering what it is you really want, and finding that it is indeed a rangefinder, I would then save up and get a Leica. Rangefinder lust… it begins and ends with Leica, unfortunately. Either LTM or M depending on your preference. The M bodies are very slick to use, the LTM bodies less so but still very capable.

I disagree that the camera body is irrelevant. Ever used an interchangeable lens Voigtlander Prominent? Talk about great lenses made almost useless by a clumsy-borderline-infuriating body and viewfinder. Sure you can take great pictures with it. You can also miss a lot of great pictures with it. Perhaps an extreme example, but it proves the point that ergonomics absolutely do matter.

The M cameras just get out of the way and do their job, plus you can use a huge range of lenses, from $15 Industar-61’s to vintage Leica, Canon, Nikkor, etc. to the best modern designs.

Nothing in particular against other options. I wouldn’t turn down a decent Canon if it was working well. Nikons are great too, though lens choices are limited. But Leicas offer something quite valuable in return for the price: a very high probability they will remain serviceable for many decades to come. The same may be true for some other brands, perhaps to a lesser extent due to quantity and demand. Leica made a whole lot of cameras and there is still a strong demand to keep them working.

Sorry, I don’t mean to evangelize, that’s not the point.

I was in your shoes 2 years ago and ultimately saved up and bought a nice M3. It was worth it. I like using it. I don’t care if there is a bandwagon full of Leica-owning dentists, lawyers, engineers, film hipsters and YouTubers. There is still room on the bandwagon for normal people who just want a nice camera.

 

[awty]

What does this timeworn cliche mean? The OP specifically said he wants an interchangeable lens rangefinder.

How about this one.

..amateurs worry about equipment,
professionals worry about money,
masters worry about light,
I just take pictures...​

 

[snusmumriken]

Here’s what Gianni Berengo Gardin said about it in 2018:
“I keep using my mechanical machines. Many people say to me, 'But still, why Leica?' It's like with women. If you're really in love with a woman, even if you know another more beautiful, better, smarter one, you don't care. I arrived at Leica with time. It was my fourth or fifth camera - even then they were very expensive - for me it was the myth. It was an achievement to be able to buy it. And I stayed with that idea, a little because it was my aspiration, a little because it was really at the forefront back then. Today it remains a great camera, modern ones have almost matched it, but it always remains an extraordinary machine, if you know it well. The myth is unmistakeable that it has something to do with it, but it is a love of my youth and has remained so. Actually, I do also use other machines - the Contax, the Nikon or the Hasselblad - but the most felt and most ‘mine’ photos, were almost all taken with the Leica, because if you are convinced of the means you work better.”

 

[250swb]

I doubt there will be a market crash coming up so just buy the camera you need to fulfill your current dreams. The demise of film keeps on being sited as a reason to be careful, but look at how much film you can still buy, tons of it! The Bessa's have gone up in price because the Leica M's have gone up in price more, but that won't ever make the Bessa more desirable other than budgetary considerations. But if a Bessa is $1000 that is the genuine price because if you sell it there will still be people on a budget that want to buy it.

 

[cerber0s]

My advice would be to ask yourself why you want an interchangeable lens rangefinder. I’m not saying you shouldn’t want one, but camera lust often begins with an idea of what you could do if only you had something different… What does it offer that you don’t have now? Compactness? Quiet operation? Ease of use? Uninterrupted viewing? More or less so than what you already have?

If your question wasn’t specifically about interchangeable lens rangefinders I’d suggest picking up the first decent Spotmatic or Nikon SLR to come your way and call it good. If money is a concern you’ll be money ahead no matter which way you look at it.

After considering what it is you really want, and finding that it is indeed a rangefinder, I would then save up and get a Leica. Rangefinder lust… it begins and ends with Leica, unfortunately. Either LTM or M depending on your preference. The M bodies are very slick to use, the LTM bodies less so but still very capable.

I disagree that the camera body is irrelevant. Ever used an interchangeable lens Voigtlander Prominent? Talk about great lenses made almost useless by a clumsy-borderline-infuriating body and viewfinder. Sure you can take great pictures with it. You can also miss a lot of great pictures with it. Perhaps an extreme example, but it proves the point that ergonomics absolutely do matter.

The M cameras just get out of the way and do their job, plus you can use a huge range of lenses, from $15 Industar-61’s to vintage Leica, Canon, Nikkor, etc. to the best modern designs.

Nothing in particular against other options. I wouldn’t turn down a decent Canon if it was working well. Nikons are great too, though lens choices are limited. But Leicas offer something quite valuable in return for the price: a very high probability they will remain serviceable for many decades to come. The same may be true for some other brands, perhaps to a lesser extent due to quantity and demand. Leica made a whole lot of cameras and there is still a strong demand to keep them working.

Sorry, I don’t mean to evangelize, that’s not the point.

I was in your shoes 2 years ago and ultimately saved up and bought a nice M3. It was worth it. I like using it. I don’t care if there is a bandwagon full of Leica-owning dentists, lawyers, engineers, film hipsters and YouTubers. There is still room on the bandwagon for normal people who just want a nice camera.

Thanks!

I own both a Nikon F2 and a Canon F1, hardly ever use the F2.

I want something smaller, and I want the interchangeable lenses, although I’ll probably end up swapping between only 2. I’ll think about this for a while, but I might follow your lead and go for a M3.

 

[BradS]

Looking at eBay right now, I see that Map camera (a highly respected Leica dealer in Japan) is offering a user Leica M2 for $1360. It's not a beauty queen but it's not ugly either. They say it is fully functional and they know what they're talking about. At that price, I don't see any point in spending $1000 on a Bessa...If you buy a Bessa, you'll still want the Leica eventually so, just go there directly.

 

[cerber0s]

Looking at eBay right now, I see that map camera (a highly respected Leica dealer in Japan) is offering a user Leica M2 for $1360. It's not a beauty queen but it's not ugly either. They say it is fully functional and they know what they're talking about. At that price, I don't see any point in spending $1000 on a Bessa...If you buy a Bessa, you'll still want the Leica eventually so, just go there directly.

Yeah, the price difference is not enough to justify the Bessa. The problem with ordering from outside the EU is that I’ll get slapped with customs fees and VAT. The $1360 M2 with another $30 shipping will end up costing me $1805.

There is a really nice CLA’d M3 in a well respected camera store near me. They want $1400 for it. That doesn’t seem too bad I think?

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you are that concerned about the money then get a Canon 7. You won't really be missing out. I use my two Canon 7's more than my Leica M3, thought not as much as my Konica Hexar RF. If the Canon had an M mount it would sell for almost as much as a Leica. You can even buy brand new lenses for the Canon. Voigtlander just released a new 28mm in ltm. The Canon is a no brainer, and if you decide later to move to a Leica, you can use the same lenses on it as well.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why would some people want interchangeable lenses for range finder cameras?

Because there are no zoom lenses for those cameras.​

 

[r_a_feldman]

Why would some people want interchangeable lenses for range finder cameras?

Because there are no zoom lenses for those cameras.​

Why? Here are just two reasons. 1. Because zoom lenses are usually big and heavy. 2. There is something nice about using a fixed focal length lens and “zooming with your feet” to frame the scene the way you want.

I’m sure there are lots of other reasons other people have.

 

[GregY]

Looking at eBay right now, I see that Map camera (a highly respected Leica dealer in Japan) is offering a user Leica M2 for $1360. It's not a beauty queen but it's not ugly either. They say it is fully functional and they know what they're talking about. At that price, I don't see any point in spending $1000 on a Bessa...If you buy a Bessa, you'll still want the Leica eventually so, just go there directly.

"Just go there". Exactly..... There's a bunch of M2 on Ebay around $1200-1400.