Price Increases ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

Simon R Galley · Apr 20, 2006

Dear All,

In the product availability section there is a thread titled 'ILFORD Price Hike'
We have responded in detail to this on page 3 of the thread:

Please note : Prices in France, Germany, Switzerland and Benelux were increased on January 1st 2006 : With only a 1.00% increase on May 1st :

Kind Regards

Simon : ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

pauldc · Apr 20, 2006

Dear Simon,

thanks for pointing this out - it was informative and interesting to read and it is very refreshing to see your company's positive attitude to stakeholders and customers. In the long run this will only build faith, trust and committment.

It also got me thinking about the complexity and work of producing film and paper. It was really fascinating the way you described it. Sorry if this is a silly question but I wondered whether Ilford does factory tours for members of the public? Speaking personally it would be really interesting to see the various manufacturing processes.

Good luck for the future!

nworth · Apr 20, 2006

This is happening all over. Kodak also announced a 17 percent price hike in all silver bearing materials. The reason is the astronomical increase in the price of silver. Eighteen months ago it was stable at a little under US$5.00 per troy ounce. Now it is just under US$15.00 per troy ounce, and the price is rising rapidly.

leeturner · Apr 20, 2006

As Simon pointed out in the other thread one of the major problems is energy costs. Both commercial and domestic energy bills have risen in the UK by around 80% due to an increased demand/restricted supply of natural gas. Besides Ilford and other manufacturers having to raise their prices, the retailer also has these increased costs and will also have to adjust the selling price to cover this.

Willie Jan · Apr 20, 2006

somebody is getting rich....

price increase silver 300%, but since there is only around 1 gram of silver in a pack of 18x24cm paper, how would this affect the price so much????

roteague · Apr 20, 2006

Willie Jan said:
somebody is getting rich....

price increase silver 300%, but since there is only around 1 gram of silver in a pack of 18x24cm paper, how would this affect the price so much????

There is a lot more that goes into the price of a pack of paper than just silver. Try increased oil prices, skyrocketing health care costs, and higher taxes for example .....

Ben Taylor · Apr 20, 2006

Simon,

Thank you for being so frank and open about this. I think it's a fact of life that analog products will become more expensive over time, and we simply have to cope with it.

It is so refreshing to deal with a company that can be clear and open in their reasons for taking decision such as this. I know that I for one will continue to support Ilford!

Ben.

SphericalAberration · Apr 20, 2006

Silver prices are going to keep increasing :-(

The electonics industry used to HASL plate PCBs ( Hot Air Solder Level with leaded solder ), but now the EU RoHs regulations ( that helped kill the P645,Xpan etc. ) mean the demand for Immersion Silver plated PCBs is ever increasing.

Simon R Galley · Apr 20, 2006

I am doing a factory tour here at ILFORD Photo Mobberley for APUG members on friday june 2nd, please check out member organised functions thread.

You would be most welcome

Simon.

markbb · Apr 20, 2006

roteague said:
There is a lot more that goes into the price of a pack of paper than just silver. Try increased oil prices, skyrocketing health care costs, and higher taxes for example .....

Ilford is a British company. As a civilised place we have a national health service, free at the point of delivery. I understand that this is not the case in some more backward areas of the world, where people would rather pay hard cash to keep laywers, accountants, administrators etc. in work. Stange, but true.

kraker · Apr 20, 2006

Simon R Galley said:
In the product availability section there is a thread titled 'ILFORD Price Hike'

And here I was, completely ignoring that thread, thinking there would be some hike (walking track thingy) somewhere in the UK, on the 17th of some month, in which one can win prices from Ilford ("sponsored by Ilford!). :rolleyes: *blush*

(Honestly, I didn't know any other meaning to the word "hike"...)

Please note : Prices in France, Germany, Switzerland and Benelux were increased on January 1st 2006 : With only a 1.00% increase on May 1st :

Good to know.

Still, you don't hear me complaining. I'd rather see the price of my favourite products increase than seeing them removed from the market.

Aggie · Apr 20, 2006

Raw silver or unprocessed other than making a glob of it (button) is at $15.00 an ounce. The processing of the silver into the various usable forms be it sheet casting grains, or the silver needed to make the emulsions and such for photography use costs more. They have to process the raw stuff and that takes energy, time, and people to do it. Those costs get factored into the real price of silver. Where on the spot market it may only look like a 300% increase it maybe more than an actual 600% increase.

Jim Chinn · Apr 20, 2006

Energy costs are the major driving factor. If it was limited to photography materials it would not be that big of a deal. But the cost to produce and refine metals, plasitcs and the simple doubling of the cost to run machines will drive the cost of everything up and up.

One of the side consequences of these increasing costs is reflected in stories in the local paper of people breaking into adandoned houses or even rental homes currently unoccupied and stealing all the copper water lines. Copper currently fetches up to $1.50 lb for scrap. There was a story of people stealing aluminum siding off a house, with aluminum near .50 cents per lb.

Refining of copper and mfg of aluminum both require large amounts of energy. That reflects some of the increase in cost and value of scrap. The other is demand continues to increase with rapid industrialization of China and the rest of Asia.

I imagine also that a percentage of the silver increase is due to speculators driving the futures market.

BWGirl · Apr 20, 2006

markbb said:
Ilford is a British company. As a civilised place we have a national health service, free at the point of delivery. I understand that this is not the case in some more backward areas of the world, where people would rather pay hard cash to keep laywers, accountants, administrators etc. in work. Stange, but true.

Shame on you, "Mr. Civilised" for making this a political statement. Take your attitude to the Soapbox.

Simon is trying to explain things, and the people here are VERY supportive of Ilford. I, for one use almost exclusively the film, paper and chemicals produced by Ilford. Thanks for supporting us, Simaon & company!

Simon R Galley · Apr 20, 2006

Dear All,

Thanks for your feedback ( good and bad ) its very valuable to us..as is your business, thanks for using ILFORD Photo products

Regards

Simon.

Thomas Bertilsson · Apr 20, 2006

Skip the politics, please.

What does this outburst of political garbage have to do with this thread, and what are you trying to achieve with it? I thought we were discussing photography here.

markbb said:
Ilford is a British company. As a civilised place we have a national health service, free at the point of delivery. I understand that this is not the case in some more backward areas of the world, where people would rather pay hard cash to keep laywers, accountants, administrators etc. in work. Stange, but true.

Mark Layne · Apr 20, 2006

I am extremely supportive of Ilford and delighted to note that silver prices took their biggest tumble since 1983 today.
Oh but then-my silver shares buried in some mutual fund-perhaps I should not be quite so delighted
Mark

roteague · Apr 20, 2006

markbb said:
Ilford is a British company. As a civilised place we have a national health service, free at the point of delivery. I understand that this is not the case in some more backward areas of the world, where people would rather pay hard cash to keep laywers, accountants, administrators etc. in work. Stange, but true.

True, but you are still not immune to the rise in health care costs - if you don't believe that, then perhaps you should check the your countries health care budget for the past few years.

As for whether other areas are backwards, that is simply a matter of opinion, and your is as good as mine.

donbga · Apr 20, 2006

Willie Jan said:
somebody is getting rich....

Would you rather they get poor? Face the reality, profits have to be made for companies to mantain their viability.

Expect even more price increases as the dominance of film usage declines world wide.

markbb · Apr 20, 2006

BWGirl said:
Shame on you, "Mr. Civilised" for making this a political statement. Take your attitude to the Soapbox.

Shame on you for not responding to the political dig about 'rising health-care costs'.

I was merely pointing out that 'rising health-care costs' was irrlevant for Ilford, and pehaps the siting of their production in the UK, as opposed to more costly parts of the world for an employer, was relevant. I proudly buy many Ilford products in the knowledge that my purchases support the company and my fellow countrymen employed in their production. Show me how I'm wrong?

johnnywalker · Apr 20, 2006

Rising health care costs are hardly irrelevant for Ilford or any citizen of the country. Who do you think pays for these costs if not corporate and personal taxes? Your "free" health care takes a huge chunk of the national budget, as it does in Canada. This does not mean I'm not in favour of national health care by the way.

jeroldharter · Apr 20, 2006

markbb said:
Ilford is a British company. As a civilised place we have a national health service, free at the point of delivery. I understand that this is not the case in some more backward areas of the world, where people would rather pay hard cash to keep laywers, accountants, administrators etc. in work. Stange, but true.

I am a physician working in an uncivilized part of the world where there is still a remnant of a free market. I have also worked in New Zealand which is apparently civilized because they have socialized the medical industry. For my own health care, I am happy to live in the uncivilized world. For your health care, good luck with waiting lists, rationing, politicization of medical care, quotas, brain drain of physicians... And it is all "free" and available to everyone.

Perhaps it would be just as wise, fair, and egalitarian to socialize the British photo industry to spare us the ignominy of market forces affecting the cost of photo paper.

dphill · Apr 20, 2006

How about we just move this to the Soapbox where it belongs?

gr82bart · Apr 21, 2006

dphill said:
How about we just move this to the Soapbox where it belongs?

I have a better suggestion. How about everyone get back on topic and ignore the distraction. It's a shame that one person with a not-so-subtle political statement can derail a great thread. Delegating this to the sopabox everytime only serves to hide the great information in this thread. Let's ignore his remark and focus on the topic.

Willie Jan said:
somebody is getting rich....

price increase silver 300%, but since there is only around 1 gram of silver in a pack of 18x24cm paper, how would this affect the price so much????

As the former head of an engineering department, this type of statement drives me more crazy than any political one. Fine, sure, some people along the supply chain get rich from the making of that film. So what? The fact is that it is a complex chain of events that is required to make the roll of film - from the mining, extraction and processing of silver to the bonded storage and distribution of the silver and the logistics behind associated other chemicals and materials, to the construction, delivery, testing of the manufacturing equipment and buildings, to the maintenance of same, to the research and development of the emulsion and the coating processes, to the actual manufacturing process of making a roll of film and it's packaging, to the marketing of that film, to supply chain of distributing that film across the world - all this takes salaries and benefits - civilized or not, equipment, buildings energy, taxes, fees, etc...

There's a saying about being "nickeled and dimed". You are only looking at the increase of one variable in a million. I would say due to the increased energy costs recently all the raw materials have increaesed in costs, which means all the logistics costs have increased, which means all the maintenance costs have increased, etc.... it's a supply chain. Increase the cost of energy and all the basic costs along the supply chain increase incrementally so that the cummulative effect is a substantial increase to the consumer.

Sometimes I feel I am explaining the obvious.

Regards, Art.

dphill · Apr 21, 2006

dphill said:
How about we just move this to the Soapbox where it belongs?

Art,
You are correct about my statement. I apologize for not being more specific, I meant the off-topic discussion needed to be moved, not the original thread.

Dan

Price Increases ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited

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