Price increase on Efke Sheet film at JandC??`

scootermm · Dec 25, 2005

merry xmas to all and happy holidays first off.

curious is anyone knows what caused to price increase on Efke Film? I noticed that buying a box of 7x17 (25 sheets) has recently increased in price from $90 to $135. Thats a 50% markup and a significant price increase.

Its a film Ive grown to really love but the increased price is making me wonder if moving to the "special run" ilford/kodak is a better bet. One of the main reasons I chose to settle on Efke was the wonderful ability of the film and its reasonable price, at around $4 a shot I guess I was spoiled. just curious if anyone knows when/why this increase occured.

Mongo · Dec 26, 2005

Efke film seems to have gone up in price in a number of sizes at the J&C site. If you're interested in why, I'm guessing that you'll just have to wait until John sees your message here and responds to it. If you want to know sooner, you can always email him. John's always been a very up-front guy when I've communicated with him.

The increase in 8x10 film isn't anywhere near 50%, but it's also not insubstantial. I'll continue to use it at the new price because I love the film and can live with the price change. It's also still around 2/3 the price of 8x10 TMY, so the decision for me is a no brainer for me.

I've not kept an eye on 7x17 prices, but I wonder if the previous Efke price was a sale price. John's kept a lot of stuff on sale over time.

As I said, I'm sure he'll chime in. Most likely, I think, is an increase in price from the factory. But regardless of the reason, I personally find so much to love in the Efke film that I'll keep using it. If the price of Efke got substantially closer to Kodak prices, I'd re-examine my decision to use Efke at that time...although I love the film for contact printing so much that I might just continue to use it. Time will probably tell.

Best of luck to you.
Dave

noseoil · Dec 26, 2005

Jay, one thing I prefer with Efke 100 is its ability to expand and contract in almost any situation. I've been working with it seriously for the last year now, and have been impressed with its use when dealing with scenes showing too much contrast, as well as too little. If most of your shots fall within "normal" ranges, it is slower than a 200 speed film and won't offer much to add with respect to tonality. As soon as things become more interesting with light, it comes into its own. The 25 speed film will build contrast in scenes where there isn't enough contrast to notice tonality, but it is a real P.I.T.A. if there is a lot of contrast to deal with. It expands but doesn't like to contract.

I just received my order from J&C of 4x5 in the 100 speed. For one thing, the old familiar Efke label is gone and has been replaced with the "Adox" name. It looks as if suppliers have been changed at some point along the way, and that demand is driving prices on the world market. This is just a best guess. tim

rrankin · Dec 26, 2005

Actually, I believe the new packaging is an indication that J&C supplies are being given substantially more post-production quality control. Those who have used Efke over the past few years will be familiar with several problems which have arisen. J&C has arranged with the manufacturer to obtain stocks not subject to these problems. This may also account for a price increase if there was one.

Cheers, Richard

Daniel Grenier · Dec 26, 2005

scootermm said:
.....increased in price from $90 to $135. Thats a 50% markup and a significant price increase. .....

Well, I`d get used to it, Matt. Current market conditions for ULF film are such that prices are on a one way direction - up, up, up. Ilford has recently come out with their price list and 7x17 FP4 is a whopping $162 per 25 sheets! At these prices, we are all going to shoot less, surely, and prices will by consequence go even higher I suspect or some films might entirely disappear.

Makes me regret not buying a freezer full of Photowarehouse re-branded FP4 or short dated 7x17 Efke 100 from J&C for a mere $49 per 25.

Things are not the same anymore!

photomc · Dec 26, 2005

If you check the JandC web site, there is a notice that states that all Efke films will be packaged as ADOX in the future. Right now orders may be mixed, Adox or Efke, not sure what it means other than Adox was the original name. As to the price increase, don't know Matt..but as has been mentioned would contact John. I can say that after checking just now the 4x5, 5x7 and 8x10 are the same price that I paid back at the end of summer.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 26, 2005

If I'm not mistaken, price increases from Efke and Forte (which makes the J&C Classic films) have been expected for some time. Look back at the discussion the last time Forte was headed into receivership.

scootermm · Dec 26, 2005

knew it was coming... eventually..... as always. But nonetheless I just hate that Im going to feel even more financial strain every time I press the shutter button. I know that John and JandC arent the sort of business to gouge their products and jack up prices without cause. Just more of a frustrating thing. I likely could have kept it to myself and not posted to the forum... just more curious if I had missed something in the past - which it sounds like I did in a previous discusion about forte.

nworth · Dec 26, 2005

Aside from the expense of stocking such very odd sizes as 7X17 (low demand), I've noticed that the price of silver has skyrocketed during the past year. It's near US$9 an ounce now, compared to about $4.80 not very long ago. If they had to buy silver for a new emulsion run, it might account for a price hike.

David A. Goldfarb · Dec 26, 2005

Meanwhile, there's some short-dated 8x20 and 7x17 on sale at J&C. Click on "odds and ends."

Mongo · Dec 26, 2005

Jay-

Sorry I didn't get on line sooner to answer your query. As Tim noted, Efke films build density like mad (better than any other film I've tried). There's nothing quite like them for contact prints on Azo (which is all I've done with 8x10 up to this point). Depending on what happens with the "new Azo", and with my waxing and waning interest in alternative processes, the extra density I get from Efke may or may not still be useful for me in the future. I'm saving my remaining Azo for prints of the negatives that I shot with Azo in mind, and will only be shooting 8x10 for contact prints on regular enlarging paper for now. Since I have most of an open box of Efke 100 and it's the slow season for 8x10 for me, I'll run through most of that box before I decide what I'll work with next.

I use a lot of Fomapan 200 in 120 and 35mm, but haven't yet cracked any in sheet film sizes. I do have a box of Fomapan 200 in 4x5, but I have too many other open packages of film right now to start with another film.

I love the look of Fomapan 200 over everything else in 120 (with Acros 100 coming a close 2nd), but if the sheet film acts like the roll film in terms of density and a good substitute for Azo is found, my 8x10 work will continue to be done with Efke 100. If I end up contact printing on standard enlarging paper, then my 8x10 will be done with Fomapan 200. There is something very unique about the tonal response of that film that I absolutely love. If it expanded the way that Efke films do, I'd use nothing else.

Be well.
Dave

roteague · Dec 26, 2005

Mongo said:
I'll run through most of that box before I decide what I'll work with next.

Ever thought about Velvia?

Mongo · Dec 26, 2005

I do have half of a box of Velvia Quickloads. I only bring them out in the Autumn when Western Pennsylvania becomes the best place to be...I fear that my color work mostly looks like very nice snapshots.

But if it will make you feel any better, I do have 12 rolls of Provia 100F in the freezer, and am making a New Year's resolution for the first time in my adult life: I will shoot at least one roll of the Provia every month of the year. Perhaps a lot more.

I want to get better at color, and the only way I'm going to do that is to shoot more color. I've been at B&W for so long that my mind automagically switches over to "tonal" mode whenever I'm evaluating a scene for photographic purposes. I'm going to be working on learning to make good color photographs that actually deliver the emotional message that I want to deliver...that's the skill that I'm missing in color.

So, Robert, all is not lost. In the future I could very easily be loading up 8x10 Provia along with 8x10 Efke. (It will be Provia, though, rather than Velvia. Velvia's too "over the top" for the part of the world in which I reside, except for the autumn.)

If that doesn't make you feel good, perhaps this will: The reason I want to get better at color is almost entirely due to "Angry Sea #1". That's a photograph that took up residency in my imagination and that I just can't get away from. I'll never be that good, but somewhere in the world is a picture that I can make that can have impact on viewers, in color. I know this, having seen how "Angry Sea #1" hit me right between the eyes.

Be well.
Dave

roteague · Dec 26, 2005

Dave,

Thanks for all your kind words about my work; it is truly appreciated. I used to do B&W, years ago, but have since become primarily a color landscape photographer. It is something I have become more and more commited to over the past few years. Angry Sea #1 is one of my favorite images as well, and I have high hopes for it. At the moment, I have a 30x40 inch version of it (framed) hanging at a gallery; it looks like I have a potential buyer as well, although I was asked if I would consider selling it unframed - I said no. My hope is that within a couple of years, I can kiss the IT world goodbye, and just sell a few prints to get along. I may have to move, and I"m about ready to, but I haven't decided where yet. I love the islands and want to be somewhere where returning won't be a big hassle, but I am beginning to miss the seasons, and to miss the mountains.

Thanks again for you kind words, I hope you are able to try some more color work, I suspect you will like it more than you realize.

Dug · Dec 27, 2005

While we are on the subject of Adox 100 - I just got some as a substitute for FP4+ for contrast masking. It seems to have quite high Film base + fog. Should I be doing something differently? I am processing the same as for FP4+ for a contrast reduction mask: Jobo @ 20 deg C - straight d-76 4 min, Stop (water) 30 sec, rapid fix 2 min, wash 10 min.

Any thoughts? The processing described above works well for FP4+ and is taken from Ilford's Ilfochrome masking guide.

(Edit: I just saw in other posts that others run into high fb+f as well. This means longer printing times if I move to Adox 100 for masking.)

Mongo · Dec 28, 2005

Jay-

No densitometer here...I rely on a light box and a spot meter for estimating density in my negatives. Not the most elegant solution, but it works for my purposes. (The biggest downside is that I have to rely on a filter to estimate blue light transmission, which limits what I can accurately measure.)

My comments regarding printing on Azo with Efke film rather than Fomapan have more to do with how far I've taken my testing than with any inherent problem with the films. At the time that I did my testing, the Efke film built the density range I needed so easily that I basically gave up on the other films. I didn't completely give up...I did continue testing for another round but didn't get any of the other films to give me the range that I wanted. Since I had the Efke working so well, I stopped the other testing when I didn't get positive results quickly. Most likely, the problems was my abandoning the tests before I pushed the films far enough rather than any inherent problem with the films.

Continuing the tests to find out if any of the other films I work with would build the density range I want for Azo hasn't been a high priority. (Having plenty of Efke 100 in 8x10 was a contributing factor.)

Your comment that you believe the Fomapan should be able to build enough density for Azo intrigues me, and will probably send me back to do more testing sooner than I would have otherwise. Thanks very much for that information; as always, your posts provide a wealth of knowledge. I'll let you know if I find anything interesting.

Be well.
Dave

Mongo · Dec 29, 2005

Thanks very much for all of the information Jay. I'm currently using Pyrocat-HD for my Efke negatives destined for contact printing. I might give Rodinal a spin with Fomapan to see what I can do with that combination. Of course as I stated above, I do have unfinished testing to do with Fomapan and Pyrocat-HD. I might open the box of Fomapan 4x5 sooner than I thought...

Good luck in the darkroom tonight. I hope it's a fruitful session.

Be well.
Dave

steve simmons · Dec 29, 2005

Here asre some things to think about re ULF film and some of the J&C products

Both Ilford and Kodak are now taking orders for ULF film. Ilford is offereing FP4+ and HP5+. No minimums are required and several dealers around the country can take these orders. Kodak has also shown a more friendly attitude in making ULF film available.

J&C has had periodic problems with delivery and quality controil. I have not heard about such problems with Kodak and Ilford. View Camera has had great difficulty getting any info out of J&C as to what they offer, what sizes, and what the box sizes are. This has been going on for over a year.

FP4+ is a terrific film for manyuses - plussing, minussing, and alt processes.

If J&C continues to raise prices to where they get even close to Ilford, well......

No. neither Ilford or Kodak are advertisers in View Camera. Both of these companies are making a sincere effort at the moment to supply us with the film we want to use. I would like to see that effort rewarded.

steve simmons

Mongo · Dec 29, 2005

steve simmons said:
J&C has had periodic problems with delivery and quality controil. I have not heard about such problems with Kodak and Ilford.

Until very recently, both Ilford and Kodak have had a much bigger problem with delivery of ULF film: Lack of availability. At least now they're taking orders.

steve simmons said:
View Camera has had great difficulty getting any info out of J&C as to what they offer, what sizes, and what the box sizes are. This has been going on for over a year.

Try http://www.jandcphoto.com Really Steve...this is the single most pathetic comment I've ever read. Anywhere. About anything. If you honestly believe that this complaint is going to sway anyone, then you're dancing to music that I just don't hear. You are complaining that a company that has a web site with their entire catalog on it won't give you information on what they sell...what is wrong with this picture?!?

steve simmons said:
FP4+ is a terrific film for manyuses - plussing, minussing, and alt processes.

As are the Efke films, the Forte films, etc...FP4+ is a great film but there are other great films. To each his and/or her own.

steve simmons said:
If J&C continues to raise prices to where they get even close to Ilford, well......

.....some people will switch to Ilford, and some will continue to use the films that they use today because they're happy them. Some of us use Efke, Foma, or Forte because we like them, not because they're cheap.

steve simmons said:
No. neither Ilford or Kodak are advertisers in View Camera. Both of these companies are making a sincere effort at the moment to supply us with the film we want to use. I would like to see that effort rewarded.

J&C have been making a sincere effort to supply us with film for quite a while, and I'd like to see their effort rewarded too.

I see great strides by Ilford in listening to their core customer base, and I hope they have great success with their efforts. As to Kodak, well, I personally don't think they'll be in the film business much longer, but that's just a guess. It's nice that they're making larger sizes available today.

I do trust that J&C will continue to provide exemplary customer service and a wide range of products. The only quality problem I ever had was mis-cut 4x5 film, and John offered replacement film before I even discovered that I had a problem.

Really Steve...I think it's great that Kodak and Ilford are making this gesture. But coming here and dissing J&C is really weak.

steve simmons · Dec 29, 2005

I am not dissing anybody.

For example, on the J&C site some of the sheet fils there is no indication of the number o sheets n a box

when we tried to contact J&C about4x10 sheet film they did not respond to several e-mails

When I was researching an article on all of the availble sheet films, all available sizes, both Kdak and Ilford replied wih a complete list amd number of sheets in a box within three days. J&C ook almost two weeks and only told us what sizes but not the numer of sheets in a box. I sent several e-mails to John askig him to call e. He did once repsond that he woud cll but never did.

I don't care what people buy.

Just the facts.

steve simmons

sanking · Dec 29, 2005

Steve

A different perspective.

First, I have been purchasing film from JandC for several years and have never had a single problem. Also, I know that some people who purchased film from JandC were for one reason or another not satisfied with the product and received refunds or other compensation. Granted, quality control with some of the East European films has not been great and I can not speak for everyone, but on the whole it appears to me that most people who have done business with JandC have been reasonably satisfied with both the products and customer service.

Second, as for periodic delivery of ULF film, JandC has been a much better supplier than Kodak or Ilford over the past several years. To the best of my knowledge Kodak has not supplied any film in ULF size for many years other than custom placed orders that required a very large financial committment. Ilford film in some ULF formats has been available during this period, but actual supplies have been spotty and the choice of formats not nearly as wide as that offered by JandC.

Third, it may have missed your attention but the current deal for the purchase of a master roll of Kodak TMAX-400 film would not be as close to realization as appears to be the case but for a major financial participation on the part of JancC. At least, that is my understanding. Those who know better may correct me if I am in error. That is major committment by JandC and suggests to me that this company wants to be a player. Talk is cheap. People who bring money to the table, along with ideas, are the folks who make things happen.

Finally, preliminary pricing information suggests that TMAX-400 film in ULF size will be available from JandC for about the same, or perhaps less, than the price for Ilford film on a per sheet comparison. At those prices TMAX-400 is a great bargain. It has excellent expansion and contraction development, a very long straight curve, and low reciprocity failure. FP4+ is also a very good film, with very good expansion and contraction potential, and a very low B+F, even with Pyro developers and long develoment times. However, compared to TMAX-400, FP4+ is slower and also has greater reciprocity failure. These facts become increasingly important with the size of format as since we need to stop down to f/45 or more for good depth of field, which places a great value on film speed and low reciprocity.

Sandy

steve simmons said:
Here asre some things to think about re ULF film and some of the J&C products

Both Ilford and Kodak are now taking orders for ULF film. Ilford is offereing FP4+ and HP5+. No minimums are required and several dealers around the country can take these orders. Kodak has also shown a more friendly attitude in making ULF film available.

J&C has had periodic problems with delivery and quality controil. I have not heard about such problems with Kodak and Ilford. View Camera has had great difficulty getting any info out of J&C as to what they offer, what sizes, and what the box sizes are. This has been going on for over a year.

FP4+ is a terrific film for manyuses - plussing, minussing, and alt processes.

If J&C continues to raise prices to where they get even close to Ilford, well......

No. neither Ilford or Kodak are advertisers in View Camera. Both of these companies are making a sincere effort at the moment to supply us with the film we want to use. I would like to see that effort rewarded.

steve simmons

Dave Wooten · Dec 29, 2005

Hear Hear!

What Sandy said!

Donald Miller · Dec 29, 2005

Sandy, Thank you for your input on this matter. I share the experience of many who have been more then satisfied by John's efforts for complete customer satisfaction.

The thing that I find remarkeable about Steve's post is that it seems that Steve just can not let go of those situations where he holds a resentment against someone. Steve must think that we have shorter memories then we actually have. My take on this is that Steve has an agenda that has nothing to do with JandC Photo's product availability and level of customer service.

Aggie · Dec 29, 2005

steve simmons said:
Here asre some things to think about re ULF film and some of the J&C products

Both Ilford and Kodak are now taking orders for ULF film. Ilford is offereing FP4+ and HP5+. No minimums are required and several dealers around the country can take these orders. Kodak has also shown a more friendly attitude in making ULF film available.

J&C has had periodic problems with delivery and quality controil. I have not heard about such problems with Kodak and Ilford. View Camera has had great difficulty getting any info out of J&C as to what they offer, what sizes, and what the box sizes are. This has been going on for over a year.

FP4+ is a terrific film for manyuses - plussing, minussing, and alt processes.

If J&C continues to raise prices to where they get even close to Ilford, well......

No. neither Ilford or Kodak are advertisers in View Camera. Both of these companies are making a sincere effort at the moment to supply us with the film we want to use. I would like to see that effort rewarded.

steve simmons

This kind of comment is probably why in part J&C doesn't advertise with you. I know the other part as well.

steve simmons · Dec 30, 2005

My only agenda is to get the info out so that people can make an informed decision. I have no other personal or professional agenda or financial gain one way or the other.

steve simmons

Price increase on Efke Sheet film at JandC??`

scootermm

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Price increase on Efke Sheet film at JandC??`

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