Pre-Treating Rives BFK

Richard Boutwell

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
583
Location
Philadelphia
Format
8x10 Format
I am getting ready to make platinums this week, and only paper I have access to at the moment is Rives BFK. I read this about pre-treating the paper with oxalic acid, but I am not sure if I have that in my jr. chemistry set. Would citric acid work for pre-treating Rives? And if so, at what mixture? I use a 15g of citric acid per Liter for a stop bath when I am printing silver. I would do it right if I had the time or money, but I don't.

Thanks in advance.

Richard Boutwell
 

Mark Fisher

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
1,691
Location
Chicago
Format
Medium Format
FYI -- I can get oxalic acid at my local hardware store for a few bucks. It is used as a wood bleach and cleaner.
 

bill schwab

Advertiser
Advertiser
Joined
Jun 16, 2003
Messages
3,751
Location
Meeshagin
Format
Multi Format
Richard Boutwell said:
Would citric acid work for pre-treating Rives?
Click to expand...
I don't know Richard, it is pretty weak stuff. You can always test, but a bucket of Oxalic Acid is cheap from www.chemistrystore.com and they are pretty fast at shipping.

BTW - I've printed on a lot of BFK and have been recently going to a 20% OA solution to pretreat as it seems the paper is more buffered than before. May be something on my end though. I love it for PT/PD.

Good luck!
 
OP
OP

Richard Boutwell

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
583
Location
Philadelphia
Format
8x10 Format
Mark Fisher said:
FYI -- I can get oxalic acid at my local hardware store for a few bucks. It is used as a wood bleach and cleaner.
Click to expand...

that is the best news I have heard all day.
 

deisenlord

Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2004
Messages
480
Location
Minneapolis,
Format
4x5 Format
I've been using BFK for gumover's lately and I do two baths; 8% and 5% as hot as my tap water will do. Any less and I can get splotches.
The lighter weight "rives" non-BFK prints very well also. A single 5% pre-treat seems to do it. This paper is 175gm has a infinity symbol in the watermark and is slightly off white. It's actually called rives heavyweight even though its lighter than BFK.
 

clay

Member
Joined
Nov 21, 2002
Messages
1,335
Location
Asheville, N
Format
Multi Format
I accidentally used citric acid one time to pre-treat some Fabriano Extra white, and realized after I had made a few prints what I had done. It seemed to work fine. I suspect any acid that is strong enough to react with the carbonate buffer would work. For instance, a weak 1% solution of muriatic would also most likely work fine. The main reason that oxalic became the preferred acid is that the any oxalic left in the paper would be naturally 'friendly' with the ferric oxalate in the sensitizer. All that said, I only change what I am doing if either something is wrong or I screw up! Oxalic acid is cheap.
 

Tomf2468

Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
82
Location
Simi Valley,
Format
Large Format
What hardware stores are folks finding Oxalic Acid at? I'm just about out of it!

I tried Home Depot (no luck at all) and Lowes (a liquid version without any strength info). www.chemistrystore.com is very reasonable (cheap even), but if I can get it local I will probably save some shipping $$$

Thanks,
Tom
 

Mark Fisher

Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2003
Messages
1,691
Location
Chicago
Format
Medium Format

Both of my local hardware stores (not big box stores....real, manly hardware stores) have it. They are both part of the Do-It buying co-op.
 
OP
OP

Richard Boutwell

Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
583
Location
Philadelphia
Format
8x10 Format

I just got my oxalic acid at the local. It was around $5 for a 12oz tub. There was no cost savings compared to getting it from the chemistry store or artcraft chemicals, but I needed now so I could start working tonight.

They did have muriatic acid (I think it was around 37%). Does anyone know if that would have worked?
 

Lukas Werth

Member
Joined
Oct 26, 2005
Messages
285
Location
Pakistan
Format
Multi Format
clay said:
I accidentally used citric acid one time to pre-treat some Fabriano Extra white, and realized after I had made a few prints what I had done. It seemed to work fine. ...
Click to expand...

For what it is worth, I made a slightly different experience with citric which I also tried once for *print-out* palladium on FA. I used sodium pal. chloride which gives a warm image color, andi noticed two things with citric: 1) the color was distinctly colder 2) not al the density was printed out, there was a little bit left to be developed (pot.-oxalate); something i never noticed with oxalic acid.
 

Tomf2468

Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
82
Location
Simi Valley,
Format
Large Format
Well.... Mark ..... questioning my manlyness????? Well.........

I'll try the local dimly lit man-cave style hardware store this afternoon ;-)
 

Tomf2468

Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
82
Location
Simi Valley,
Format
Large Format
Here on the far edge of metropolitan Los Angeles, Oxalic Acid can't be found :-(

Even the manliest hardware store (with small livestock available from time to time) didn't have it. Of course this is LA, so the counter help in the manliest hardware store was female, had a big lip ring and was drinking a Starbucks Cappuccino! I even tried Do It, which didn't "do it" for oxalic. I gave up and ordered online. Buy a few pounds and this stuff is cheap even with shipping $$$.

I still miss having Tri-Ess down the road in Burbank.
 

Dana Sullivan

Advertiser
Advertiser
Joined
Apr 7, 2005
Messages
174
They have oxalic acid wood cleaner at my local Albertson's supermarket. How's that for odd?

Then again, at the same market I can walk down three aisles and grab a 750ml bottle of 190 proof Everclear. God Bless New Mexico!
 

Tomf2468

Member
Joined
May 23, 2007
Messages
82
Location
Simi Valley,
Format
Large Format
Everclear is another thing we can't get in LA. Someone (Kerik??) got me hunting for that for use in gum printing. Apparently illegal here. Perhaps it is time for me to move to New Mexico!

I found that cheap vodka works quite well in my gum work, perhaps Everclear would be better? I'll never know :-(
 

Jim Noel

Member
Joined
Mar 6, 2005
Messages
2,261
Format
Large Format
Take an enjoyable trip to Arizona or New Mexico and it is easy to find Everclear.
 

boyooso

Member
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
321
Format
Large Format
I like to put a little bit of the everclear into the cap and put it on my lips, I love the feeling of it evaporating.... it is an interesting sensation

Corey

yes, I'm in AZ
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Menu
Log in
Register
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…