Pre-loading 4x5 Film Holders (?)

Kent10D · May 3, 2008

Today the weather went from drab overcast to beautiful blue skies about an hour and a half before sundown. It would have been a perfect photo op if I had been ready, but I would have had to pull the film out of the fridge and load the holders, and with the current humidity run the risk of condensation that would make the film difficult or impossible to load, and by that time the window of opportunity would have been gone.

So, and I know these are kind of a dumb newbie questions but please bear with me:

1) Do you LF shooters keep film holders pre-loaded in case such situations arise?

2) And if you do, do you keep the loaded holders in the fridge or out?

3) Are there any drawbacks to keeping holders pre-loaded for extended periods of time?

4) Or would it be preferable to keep some quick-load film on hand?

Thanks in advance for sharing your wisdom and experience.

Cheers,

Uhner · May 3, 2008

Hi Kent

1. Yes, I usually keep a few loaded holders at home.

2. I don’t store mine in the fridge. I keep them in a dark dry place with reasonably constant temperature.

3. Depends on how you define extended periods. I have not seen any image degradation on film that has been loaded in holders for several weeks.

4. Readyloads and Quickloads are, of course, one way to do this.

Cheers. C

vdoak · May 3, 2008

Thanks for your question Kent. I had been wondering.

If I might add to your question. Is there an increase in dust, more of a dust problem on film stored in film holders, provided they are stored in a sealed container. (ziploc, or plastic static free bag, etc.)

Dave Miller · May 3, 2008

This cannot be any different to leaving a film in camera for extended periods; and I wouldnt expect to see any image degradation stemming from that. I can recollect having two Christmases on one film without detriment. Dust on film holders shouldnt be a problem provided they are kept covered.

jeroldharter · May 3, 2008

I have about 25 film holders, enough for a box of 50 sheets. I try to load them all at once, or at least as much as I can at the same time because I hate loading film holders. Then I store the loaded film holders in bags of various sorts to keep them clean. It does not matter which box the film is stored in.

Readyloads are expensive, but I keep them on hand also.

ragc · May 3, 2008

Been pre-loading forever. No issues. I keep 4x5 and 5x7 holders loaded and in my camera bag, ready for just that ocassion!

PHOTOTONE · May 3, 2008

I keep plenty of holders preloaded. For months, sometimes, in black and white. No problems. I never refrigerate loaded holders, but I keep them in my studio, where the temperature is fairly constant room temperature until I go out to shoot.

BrianShaw · May 3, 2008

1. Yes
2. Out (but in a file drawer that is dark and relatively cool)
3. Only forgetting wheter holder is loaded or not; occasionally forgetting what film is loaded. (Both should be easily corrected with better notekeeping!)
4. Never tried it but sounds promising.

John Kasaian · May 3, 2008

I like to have my holders loaded and stored in zip lock bags for dust protection and kept in a cool dark place, but not the fridge. Boxes of sheet film live in the freezer, next to the Eskimo Pies, lamajoons and succotash

Bob F. · May 3, 2008

I usually have some loaded in the fridge inside plastic sandwich boxes in zip-lock bags (I use the boxes to carry the holders in my backpack to keep dust at bay).

I have no idea why I keep b&w in the fridge however - just habit I guess as I keep all other film in there too. I'm sure somewhere else cool would be just as good in practice.

Cheers, Bob.

eclarke · May 3, 2008

I try to keep all my holders full. I have 2 anti static guns and a lifetime supply of anti static bags. I blow the holders out really well, load the film and place the loaded holders directly in the bags..Seems to work well, I have never lost a sheet...EC

Mahler_one · May 3, 2008

Film sheets are preloaded and ready to go...various kinds and speeds... multiple holders are in ready lock bags in the closet at room tempterature. Being in Florida infers that on hot humid days the air conditioning is on, and certainly the temperature is between 68 and 78 most of the time. I have noted no degradation with films stored in holders, and it is easier to simply take the appropriate group of holders rather than have to deal with the film coming to room temperature, and then loading into holders. I am only shooting black and white, and not exceeding ISO 400 film.

I agree with Bob F. in that I really wonder if it is necessary to keep b&w film cold in the fridge ( let alone the freezer ). Surely a subject for another thread, for I wonder if "studies" regarding the need for such cool storage have been done. I am not speaking about film kept for several years, but only for about a year or so.

Ed

Phillip P. Dimor · May 3, 2008

I vacuum my holders once empty and then load them all with film ahead of time. It's easier and much more convenient not having to load film every time you want to shoot. I don't store it in the freezer, just inside an old graflex case that sits inside an air-conditioned closet. I've had b&w film in a holder for close to a year, no problems. Just keep it out of heat and light.

Phillip P. Dimor · May 3, 2008

If I had a fridge dedicated to film and paper, I might store it in a drawer. Either way I always keep them in a sealed ziplock gallon bag.

John Kasaian · May 3, 2008

Why keep B&W film in the freezer?
Because there is considerable joy when I discover that tucked away behind the Birdseye, the Dreyers, the Popscicles and the albacore there lurks a box of J and C Classic or Kodak TMY! Nowhere, in my experience is there a safer place to store B&W film, nor a better place to loose it only to re-discover it again sometime in the future!
'Tis almost Biblical!
Instead of the "Prodigal son" I have the "Prodigal TMY!"
...And it happens a lot---at least a couple of times a year!

Kent10D · May 3, 2008

Thanks for the many informative replies!
The help is much appreciated.

OK, so pre-load it is, with loaded holders kept in a zip-lock bag to keep them clean. I don't expect that loaded film would live in the holders for more than a few weeks, so I guess that won't be a problem.

Excellent! No more missed opportunities (unless I'm feeling lazy ... which also happens).

Thanks again!

Mick Fagan · May 4, 2008

Just as an aside to loading film almost straight from the refrigerator, I have been doing this on the odd occasion for the last 25 years.

At one time when working in a lab/studio, it was not uncommon to either run out of film or there has been a change of film type.

With 4x5 film taken out of a refrigerator which is usually around 4°C into a room that is around 18-22°C about 5 minutes would have been the maximum time allowed before film was being loaded into holders. Not once have I ever had or heard of problems.

About 4 weeks ago I set up a still life under the back verandah, finally I'm ready to take a shot and realise I have not got a loaded holder, nor any film. I had to open an unopened box straight from the fridge, except it took about five minutes to get the compressor up to speed, then blow dust etcetera out of the two holders, then I loaded the film.

I have at times also done the same thing with bulk rolls of 35mm film, never had a problem, probably will now that I've said this.

Also dust problems with sheet film holders, get less with high humidity and more with low humidity.

Mick.

Kent10D · May 4, 2008

Mick Fagan said:
Just as an aside to loading film almost straight from the refrigerator, I have been doing this on the odd occasion for the last 25 years.

With 4x5 film taken out of a refrigerator which is usually around 4°C into a room that is around 18-22°C about 5 minutes would have been the maximum time allowed before film was being loaded into holders. Not once have I ever had or heard of problems.

Hi Mick,

I'm originally from Melbourne myself (in fact I was back there last May visiting relatives) and I can understand that you wouldn't have a problem. Melbourne is a relatively dry environment.

But where I am now (in Japan) the humidity gets *very* high during the spring and summer months. The wet part of the year is just beginning now, and I recently experienced serious problems loading film holders as a result. The film came out of the fridge, and the condensation was enough to cause the film to stick to the holder back plate so much that it was actually impossible to slide into the holder (I'm using Toyo holders, by the way).

So I learned my lesson and today I took the film out of the fridge a couple of hours before loading it into the holders and had no problem at all. Slid right in.

There can be problems in very humid environments. Something to watch out for.

2F/2F · May 4, 2008

I like to always have some HP5 and Portra 400NC loaded. At least two holders of each.

Generally if I see a situation like you mentioned, I go for the Mamiya Super 23 first, which is usually loaded with a 220 roll of MS 100/1000. I was given a huge amount of this film expired but working perfectly. I have grown to like the film. It is very accurate in color in my experience.

I don't put them in the fridge. After all, these are only to cover situations like you mentioned, and I have kept film out for a very long time with no ill effects.

2F/2F

removed account4 · May 4, 2008

i also leave film in my holders, my only problem tends to be that i don't remember what film is in which holders ...

cdholden · May 4, 2008

give up the $$$

jnanian said:
i also leave film in my holders, my only problem tends to be that i don't remember what film is in which holders ...

Ziploc bags and a Sharpie are a small price to pay.

Ian Leake · May 4, 2008

I often leave film in holders. The only problems I've had have been when the film is in slightly dodgy glass plate holders (damn those pesky light leaks...).

removed account4 · May 4, 2008

cdholden said:
Ziploc bags and a Sharpie are a small price to pay.

yes, this is true.

i have a chart with my notch codes ( badly drawn on a film-box-card ) so
i can check the film from time to time, it keeps me on my toes ...
then again, these days i usually shoot everything ( color and b/w )
15S + 3.5 and ask questions later

john

Phillip P. Dimor · May 4, 2008

I remember reading something somewhere (helpful I know.. may have been on photo.net) of a man who spent years as a photographer in Guam.. or Vietnam (not doing so great eh?).. What I do remember is that he lived in near 100% humidity and his gear would develop fungus very quickly as a result. His solution was to keep everything (gear and film) in 5 gallon paint buckets with lids and newspaper inside. He kept these buckets inside a closet (gasp!) with a hanging incandescent lightbulb a few feet from the buckets which kept everything warm enough that it were dry I suppose.

The bucket idea is good if you are swamped with moisture in the air. Personally, I would stack holders loaded with film into a gallon ziplock with a bag of _dry_ silica gell inside, and then these would go into a big rubbermaid container/5 gallon bucket with lid, etc.
You could even get that dryrite stuff, the calcium chloride stuff they use to dry out closets before painting. Get the refill box and pour some into empty 35mm film cans with holes punched in it. I'm sure they must have something similar in Japan. Hope this helps some..

Kent10D · May 4, 2008

Phillip P. Dimor said:
... near 100% humidity and his gear would develop fungus very quickly as a result. His solution was to keep everything (gear and film) in 5 gallon paint buckets ... I'm sure they must have something similar in Japan. Hope this helps some..

Hi Phillip,

We have to watch out for fungus over here as well, but we have slightly more advanced methods of dealing with that these days. Most large camera stores carry small dessicant-based dry boxes as well as electronically controlled drying cabinets with digital humidity readouts. I have one of the latter to keep my lenses, cameras, and other sensitive photo gear nice and dry and hopefully fungus-free during the really soggy months.

The problem I mentioned in the original post was condensation, which occurs when you take film out of the fridge into a high-humidity environment. One solution is simply to not keep film in the fridge, which is OK if you buy and use film quickly I suppose, but since I tend to hoard quantities of film for long periods I feel a little safer keeping it cool. It just means that I have to take the film out of the fridge an hour or two before I load it so that the film comes up to ambient temperature, which eliminates the condensation problem.

Cheers!

Pre-loading 4x5 Film Holders (?)

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