Pre-Darkroom Printing questions.

Hi everyone. I'm putting together a shopping list for a small bathroom-size darkroom, and I had some questions before I finalize the list:

1) I'm considering either Ilford Universal paper developer (500 mL) or Kodak Dektol (mix to make 1L). How many times can I use these in, say, a 12x16 tray, and how many prints should I shoot for in a session to make sure I don't waste it? I imagine I wouldn't want to pour developer back in a bottle to be used later, right? Also, I think I may want to use plastic instead of glass for chemical storage. Good idea/bad idea?

2) I'm shopping for print washers, and man, they're expensive! Can anyone attest to whether this product might be a good idea? Dead Link Removed
(Note: I plan to buy Ilford Multigrade RC paper.)

3) Is a dryer necessary, or can you hang the prints up to dry? I'm primarily worried about curling and scratching, though.

1. There is an Ilford data sheet that indicates the print usage rate. I'd stick to that
2. With RC I wouldn't bother witha print washer. A tray with water slowly overflowing for say 2 mins at most is sufficient

I don't know what happened here as I was trying to answer your third point as well. No you don't need a print drier for RC. You can hang up or Paterson do a rack in which the prints stand up leaning back at an angle and dry in about 20 mins at room temp. I'd simply wipe the excess water with a sponge or print wiper

pentaxuser

I agree with Pentax user on all counts. You can pour your developer from the tray to the bottle after a session, but you should keep some track of the number of prints to get an idea when the developer near exhaustion. Personally, I keep using it (paper developer) until I start seeing that it's wearing out before I dump it and make new. I haven't used Dektol, but I've heard that you can get a quite a few prints out of it before it poops out.

I hear you on the print washers too. I was lucky enough to snag an 11x14 one off Craigslist for like $40 along with some other stuff. I wouldn't have it any other way if printing fiber, RC will go fine with the siphon tray, but FB would use a lot of water and only a print or two at a time with the tray washer.

I use a standing file holder, like a letter holder for drying 12 RC prints and it works fine. $10 from office supply place. FB you can hang, or place on screens. It will curl as it dries no matter what you do. After it's completely dry you can stick it in a heated mounting press if you have one, or just put a pile of them under som books for a couple days to get it reasonably flat. I tried once with a regular clothes iron (no steam), but that didn't work too well.

If you're like me, I try to economize on EVERYTHING and use make-do methods whenever possible. The rest I go to good old Craigslist, or other classifieds. I think I've paid about $500 altogether and I have a pretty well equipped darkroom with two nice enlargers and all the other other truck for developing and printing.

You did the right thing coming to APUG for advice too. I have my way that works well for me and you can just about as many different opinions and ideas as you want here if you stick around. Good luck to you!

Hi,

1) The packaging will say how many prints you can expect to get from the working strength of the chemicals.
Usually given as 'x' amount of 8x10s. You can reuse the working strength developer, stop, and fixer. Do NOT
pour the working strength cems back into the stock cem bottles. Remember though, the developer will still be oxidizing even in the closed container. You will get a few less prints out of the developer, but you'll save $ in the long run and you won't have to make x amount of prints per session.

Plastic or glass is your choice and you will get supporters from both camps. Just make sure the containers are dark.

2) Yes print washers are expensive. If you are printing on RC then you can get away that print washer. I have many RC prints from the 80's that were washed using the Kodak Tray Siphon.

3) Hanging the prints buy the corner with a clip will not scratch the prints. RC prints don't curl that much and if they do you can put them under some books after they are dry.

Good luck with you own darkroom, they are a blast.

Mike

pentaxuser said:

2. With RC I wouldn't bother with a print washer. A tray with water slowly overflowing for say 2 mins at most is sufficient

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Just use the bathtub for this-- I always have a very large tray in the tub-- toss them in the tray and have the tub running fairly low to act as a wash.

You should be able to find a tray syphon for about $10. Print for quality not quantity. Dry on fiberglass window screens - emulsion up. The tray syphon is not the best way to wash but it is the least costly and would work best with a larger tray. Chemicals cost less than paper and you will probably move up to fiber base paper for more important prints. 500ml (working sol ?) is not enough for that size tray - more like 3 to 4 liters of working solution. Dektol is 1 part stock sol to 2 parts water. You might find some used equipment from someone who has quit the darkroom or has gone entirely digital.

http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/

I use between 1.4 and 1.9 liters of working solution of chemistry per 11x14 tray - larger quantities for longer printing sessions.

I also have 5x7 and 8x10 trays, and use them when all my prints during a session will be smaller than 11x14, and when I'm unlikely to need to process any large batches. They require less chemistry.

For RC, just use a tray or trays with a small, steady flow of water. I use two trays stacked one above the other. The top tray receives the water and drains through a couple of holes I drilled into it. The drained water falls into the second tray. Prints go into the bottom tray for one minute, and then are transferred into the top tray for a further minute. They are then moved to a drying rack like the one described by Exeter2010 above.

As for containers, I prefer clear plastic containers. You only need to consider dark containers for some chemicals (developer) and if the place you store the containers is quite bright.

I never save developer between sessions unless I have only run a very small number of prints through it. Even then I will discard it if it is older than a few days. Saving developer is a false economy since paper is much more expensive than developer.

For drying make up a series of screens usings 1x2 lumber and window screening. You should use stainless steel staples as iron one will cause the screen to disintegrate as they rust. Plans should be on the net or in many books on printing.

I use Ilford multigrade developer and I mix 1 liter for 8x10 and 2 liters for 11x14. I use it one shot and don't worry about using it up. I tried saving it once and it oxidized too much to be worth it. In the long run, it's cheap. I get enough prints through in a session to make it under 1$/print.
I'd use plastic - glass can be too easy to break in the dark. Just make sure you label everything and use the same bottle for the same thing each time. I also have 1L beakers and each is for a specific chem. This way, there's less of a chance that I'll mix up my developer and fixer.
I have a print washer, but I only use it for fiber. I have a tub with a drain and extra holes for overflow that works fine for RC.
RC dries easily and is pretty hardy. I've used stackable sweater dryers to good effect in the past - they usually have a nylon mesh so they don't scratch and allow good airflow. The ones I have are from Target, but were discontinued - I'm sure there's something similar now, though.
Good luck and have fun!

I can only give you partial answers, but here goes.

I use Dektol and my trays are only for 8x10. (you'll have to scale it for your size) For this, I use 200cc of Dektol stock solution and 400cc of water to make 1:2 solution as Kodak recommends. With it, you should be able to make about 20 8x10 prints. It lasts for one session only BUT... if you cover it with Saran Wrap, you can use it next day with no loss (that I can see) of performance. In the past, I did try to pour it into a sealed bottle with no air. It lasted 7 days (possibly longer) with acceptable results. At the rate I use it, it turned out to be more effort than worth, so I don't do it anymore. You may want to try that while you are practicing and perfecting your process, though.

If you use RC paper, print washer isn't necessary. I use tray and bathroom sink for this. Total wash time is about 2 minutes anyway. I do have a print washer but not feeling a need for it so it sits in my storage.

I dry it by standing it up by propping it against something and on towel. Use of squeezy tend to scratch the RC coated surface, and I didn't really like using cloth pin to hang it. It dries acceptably in about 15 to 30 minutes, then I just put them flat somewhere relatively dust free.

I print small batch at a time. Sometimes, one contact sheet is all I make. Another time, I try to perfect just one image. It's rare I print more than handful of frames during one darkroom session. I am not needing any more complex method for my own use. These days, I learned to work slowly. I tend to waste less paper this way and is more enjoyable. Your mileage may vary.... (greatly)

By the way, RC papers do not curl much. I wouldn't worry about it. Also, scratching isn't much of an issue unless you handle very carelessly. (or use dirty automotive squeezy like stupid guy like me)

if you use sprint chemistry,
you know your developer is spent
when your stop bath indicates,
same goes with your fixer.
its easy to mix all 1:9
and you can mail order right from their website !

( they are also an apug sponsor ! )

to dry your prints, just string a line and use clothes pins
hang your rc prints by the corner, fb prints square, with 4 clothes pins.

have fun !
john