Practical high temperature limitation

Bosaiya · Aug 25, 2009

Does anyone have any practical experience on the high temperature limitation of films? I have the opportunity to reach many hundreds of degrees and was wondering at what point the heat will have an effect - I would imagine there's a range of possible effects depending on the temperature. This is short-term exposure, not long-term storage.

I will be well-insulated and any gear I bring in will be considered disposable (I'm foolish but not stupid). Obviously if the exposed plastic on any gear starts to warp or blister, or the leather scorches I've gone too far, but short of that... how high? Any experience?

I've done some searching around and found information on intentionally burning film for effect, but nothing on how high it can go before succumbing to the heat.

Are there any particular film stocks that would be better suited to high temps? I'm inclined towards B&W but will probably take some color as well. No nitrate stocks I'm afraid, although the results would likely be spectacular.

trexx · Aug 25, 2009

Assuming the equipment can take the heat and just addressing the film I see three areas of concern
1) The effects of heat on the emulsion
2) The substrate of the film.
3) Capture characteristics the film

The effects of 1 should be the same as poorly stored film over along period. May have effect but nothing that cannot be overcome.
As for 2 the film may soften and stretch. Using 120 film where the backing would hold the film in place. But other films I expect would not be an issue either but I would use manual advance, if possible and rewind out of the heat.
With 3 a film with extended red may end up over exposed due to high inferred content ( this may also be a benefit. ) I would try various films including ortho. Lastly exposure may be hard to determine.

Some films are polyester and may be better suited for high temps. As the film will be in a camera, I would think the film would out live the camera.

TR

Photo Engineer · Aug 25, 2009

I have processed EK films up to 120 deg F. This is not to say I suggest doing it, but they are hard.

What I do suggest is that you be aware of the fact that temperature chagnes between steps is more harmful than absolute temperature. Try some film and check it out. I have had reticulation at 68 F with the wrong chemistry or with abrupt temperature changes.

PE

Dave Pritchard · Aug 25, 2009

So, you are going to go to Hell with a camera. Are you just going to take pictures, then return? Are you going to leave your insulated suit there, or bring it back? What do you consider to be disposable? I'd suggest a Holga. Not much to lose there.

Let us know how it turns out.
Need any infrared film?

Bosaiya · Aug 26, 2009

My intent is to stay cool enough to avoid any physical damage to the gear and film, I just wasn't sure if the high temps would cause any chemical changes that would not be obvious (I know it's too hot if the emulsion bubbles or the plastic melts, but is that all I have to worry about - physical damage? That sort of thing). I was thinking 120/220 and 4x5. Efke25 for the B&W due to its low red-response and Portra for color.

Obviously this is a trial-and-error thing, I was just hoping to reduce the chances of error as much as possible.

Dave: I'm already Married... With Children.

Steve Smith · Aug 26, 2009

Bosaiya said:
I know it's too hot if the emulsion bubbles or the plastic melts.

I think you may bubble and melt before you need to worry about the film!

Steve.

Bosaiya · Aug 26, 2009

Steve Smith said:
I think you may bubble and melt before you need to worry about the film!

I'll be well-insulated. The cameras will not be. Not unless I can jimmy up some sort of housing.

bdial · Aug 26, 2009

Well, temperatures on the moon range go up to 214 F in the sun. The Hasselblads and the film in them worked ok. The film magazines don't look to have been insulated, though mir.com says that Kodak made special emulsions, http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/hardwares/moon/2.htm. They don't say what was special though, except that it was a thin base.

If you (or the camera) are staying below temps that would melt the camera's plastic bits, the film would probably be ok, though color might shift some.

I've used some of my cameras at 120F temps in the CA desert, no problems.

Bosaiya · Aug 26, 2009

Thanks, I had been thinking about the moon trip from recent threads. I remembered the part about the cold but wasn't sure how hot it had gotten. Of course now that I think about it that's what all that gold was for.

Maybe I should get a gold camera. You know, for art's sake.

Photo Engineer · Aug 26, 2009

The gold in the helmets visor was for UV protection.

As for film, there are thermally developed products out there that can image by heat alone with no processing solutions needed. Typically the emulsion and support can survive 200 deg C in these cases. I have done that type of process. It takes about 1 - 10".

PE

Bosaiya · Aug 26, 2009

I was thinking about the gold foil insulation on the landing module, not the visors. But then clearly I'm no rocket scientist, that's a different application entirely. Gold is a very good thermal conductor inside atmosphere! It'd still look pretty nice as it heated up, though.

Bosaiya · Aug 26, 2009

Actually I think I might be able to repurpose a wildfire blanket. It wouldn't be quite as resistant what with the holes and all, but better than nothing.

Sirius Glass · Aug 26, 2009

Dave Pritchard said:
So, you are going to go to Hell with a camera. Are you just going to take pictures, then return? Are you going to leave your insulated suit there, or bring it back? What do you consider to be disposable? I'd suggest a Holga. Not much to lose there.

Let us know how it turns out.
Need any infrared film?

I really enjoyed your comment! Thanks!

:munch::munch::munch::munch::munch:

Steve

Practical high temperature limitation

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency