Power Packs & Heads versus Monolights ?

harlequin · Jun 17, 2023

Hello,

Used to be I would be in a studio full of Balcar, Norman or Speedotron packs at great expense lots of power on tap but not as user friendly as most monolights.

Packs needed servicing every other year
Flashtube s cost almost as much as the head itself and a 90v trigger circuit took out a lot of newer cameras. On the other hand you could dial up more f stops on demand as needed.

Which do you prefer and why?

I know the latest profoto and broncolor Siros look fantastic but at a high price point.

I have also used dynalite packs and heads as well as old Ascors whic all worked well at the time.

Harlequin

MattKing · Jun 17, 2023

FWIW, I have Wein Safe Synchs for my old, old, old Bowens monolights, and that has made the difference on the trigger voltage front.

RalphLambrecht · Jun 17, 2023

harlequin said:
Hello,

Used to be I would be in a studio full of Balcar, Norman or Speedotron packs at great expense lots of power on tap but not as user friendly as most monolights.

Packs needed servicing every other year
Flashtube s cost almost as much as the head itself and a 90v trigger circuit took out a lot of newer cameras. On the other hand you could dial up more f stops on demand as needed.

Which do you prefer and why?

I know the latest profoto and broncolor Siros look fantastic but at a high price point.

I have also used dynalite packs and heads as well as old Ascors whic all worked well at the time.

Harlequin

I switched from packs and heads to monolights from Walimex. I believe that more reliable and robust than the backs

harlequin · Jun 20, 2023

Thank You Matt and Mr Lambrecht!

I totally value your opinions and insights!!

Harlequin

MarkS · Jun 30, 2023

Monolights don't do well with overhead use (like on a boom) or anytime the light has to go where you can't reach the controls. They also want sturdier light stands to carry the weight.
That said, the recent Profotos with the remote are very nice.
I've ben using the same Dyna-Lite packs and heads for 30 years. If I was to buy new... I'd have to rethink everything.

harlequin · Jul 1, 2023

I have used 500xl and 800 dynalite packs and they were great items from rental. Are they still in business? I see various packs/heads show up used mostly 1000w grey packs.
Which ones have given you the most reliable service and did you have to add filtration with transparency film (Norman’s we’re blueish casts) ?

Thanks for your feedback!

Harlequin

MarkS · Jul 1, 2023

Dyna-Lite has gone out of business. Over many years, I've used M800e's, M1000XL's, and one M2000 pack. All have been reliable, and service can still be had. As I said, were I to start over, I'd buy Profoto; I have some experience with their newer stuff. But I'm not really up to speed on the studio-flash market these days.
Oddly enough I've shot mostly color negative, and for many years now digital, so the color rendition has not been very important out of the camera. Thank God.
If you're shooting color transparency, now (as then) testing is required... emulsions are different now, and the lab you use has a part to play in all that.

Mal Paso · Oct 29, 2023

I use both. I started replacing my studio kit with a couple of 400WS Westcott monolights with a radio transmitter that fully controls all the functions from the camera. They can run on batteries and are great on location for fill but are limited in power for key lights if you shoot large format. Also the monolights are heavy, 400WS monolights weigh almost twice what a 2400WS flash head that uses a power pack does. Makes a big difference on a boom. Also studio strobes are cheap used. I bought a 4,000WS pack and head for 1/3 less than the 400WS new. I usually have the strobe pack next to the camera and adjusting power is not much more difficult than the transmitter on the camera. I also put a radio receiver on my primary power pack so it plays nice with the now 3 Westcott Strobes. One less cable to trip over.

wiltw · Oct 29, 2023

I posted this a while ago on another forum...

Pros and Cons of Monolights vs. Pack+heads vs. Speedlights

Pros Monolight
Modelling light to see effect of lighting placement without taking a photo
Each light adds power, not merely divides power
Convenient setup if lights need to be physically separated long distances
Some units (not most), offer convenient adjustment of power settings without climbing to each head
Unlimited number of flashes (AC powered)
Full power recycle typically 1 sec. or less
Wide variety of light modifiers

Pros Pack+Heads
Modelling light to see effect of lighting placement without taking a photo
Lighter weight aloft, minimizes need for weight bags on stand feet
Lighter weight aloft minimizes counterweight on hairlight booms
Central adjustment of power at each head, no climbing
Central control of all modeling lights on/off
Unlimited number of flashes (AC powered)
Full power recycle typically 1 sec. or less
Widest variety of light modifiers

Pros Speedlight
Each light adds power, not merely divides power
Convenient setup if lights need to be physically separated long distances
Lightest weight aloft, minimizes need for weight bags on stand feet
Lightest weight aloft minimizes counterweight on hairlight booms
Some light modifiers
Most portable lighting available

Cons Monolight
More weight aloft for every light, makes stands top heavy
More weight aloft for hair light, increases counterweight mass
Must climb to each light to adjust power *
Must climb to each light to turn on/off modeling lights *

Cons Pack+Heads
Each head divides available power
Add heavy power pack to add light output power
Individual control of modeling light (on/off, or power level) individually at each head requires climbing
Distance between heads due to power cables, unless you add power packs
Least portable lighting available *

Cons Speedlight
No modelling light to see effect of lighting placement without taking a photo *
Individual control of light (on/off, or power level) individually at each head requires climbing (unless ETTL ratio control)
Recycle time, unless expensive battery pack is used
Limited number of flashes due to battery capacity
Fewer light modifiers available compared to studio strobes
Max power generally lower than even small studio strobes

* 'comment applies to some/most, but not all units of this class' (disclaimer to address the objections of some to universalized statements)

RalphLambrecht · Oct 30, 2023

harlequin said:
Hello,

Used to be I would be in a studio full of Balcar, Norman or Speedotron packs at great expense lots of power on tap but not as user friendly as most monolights.

Packs needed servicing every other year
Flashtube s cost almost as much as the head itself and a 90v trigger circuit took out a lot of newer cameras. On the other hand you could dial up more f stops on demand as needed.

Which do you prefer and why?

I know the latest profoto and broncolor Siros look fantastic but at a high price point.

I have also used dynalite packs and heads as well as old Ascors whic all worked well at the time.

Harlequin

I owned several power packs and liked them. Then for mobility reasons, I got a Hensel porty1200 at great expense; the worst studio light I've ever owned(the battery was always dead and needed yearly replacements). I then moved to Wallimex Newcomer Monolights. They are just perfect. Easy to operate, very robust, and always ready to go (did I mention the low cost?); highly recommended. And if I need portability, I'll get a battery power pack and have a porty-like flexibility at a fraction of the cost that actually works(in this case, 'made in China' beats 'made in Germany' hands down).

Mal Paso · Oct 30, 2023

I have Norman studio strobes, power and modeling are fully controlled from the pack. Modeling lights are on/off/full dimmer. 3 of the packs have 3 stop dimming of the strobes.

I can divide a single pack's power or add another pack up to 15KWS.

All the packs have optical triggers so physical connection isn't necessary to trigger. (radio sync to the first pack)

Westcott is made in china, a little better than Godox. Norman is USA made. The only German strobe I had was the Braun portable with the 510 volt battery, good strobe.

Pieter12 · Oct 30, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
I owned several power packs and liked them. Then for mobility reasons, I got a Hensel porty1200 at great expense; the worst studio light I've ever owned(the battery was always dead and needed yearly replacements). I then moved to Wallimex Newcomer Monolights. They are just perfect. Easy to operate, very robust, and always ready to go (did I mention the low cost?); highly recommended. And if I need portability, I'll get a battery power pack and have a porty-like flexibility at a fraction of the cost that actually works(in this case, 'made in China' beats 'made in Germany' hands down).

I have the later version of the Porty. Battery life is great, never failed me. And I can put 3 heads on it, remote trigger and output control. Love it. Downside is it uses a dedicated sync cord.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 31, 2023

Pieter12 said:
I have the later version of the Porty. Battery life is great, never failed me. And I can put 3 heads on it, remote trigger and output control. Love it. Downside is it uses a dedicated sync cord.

Αpparently. You were smart enough to wait until the lithium-ion batteries came out. I bought one with the old LED-gel batteries, which were terrible. For over $1k I could have upgraded,but by then I was not too fond of the Porty and got rid of it for peanuts.

Pieter12 · Oct 31, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
Αpparently. You were smart enough to wait until the lithium-ion batteries came out. I bought one with the old LED-gel batteries, which were terrible. For over $1k I could have upgraded,but by then I was not too fond of the Porty and got rid of it for peanuts.

Actually, I do not have the Lithium pack. If I could find one, it would be quite expensive. And lighter. The lead/acid battery works well, I don't try to get more than 100 shots out of it before recharging, but the manual says it should go longer--between 250 to over 5000 depending on the charge mode and power used. I also only use full power when shooting outdoors as a main light, so it doesn't always run full power. Plus, the lead/acid battery is a common size and readily available at 1/2 or 1/4 the price.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 1, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Actually, I do not have the Lithium pack. If I could find one, it would be quite expensive. And lighter. The lead/acid battery works well, I don't try to get more than 100 shots out of it before recharging, but the manual says it should go longer--between 250 to over 5000 depending on the charge mode and power used. I also only use full power when shooting outdoors as a main light, so it doesn't always run full power. Plus, the lead/acid battery is a common size and readily available at 1/2 or 1/4 the price.

I'm confused, Are you saying You are happy with the lead-gel battery? In that case,you couldhave had mine. I offered my entire Porty set, including a nice roller case on eBay for weeks but no intrest even for $50. Iwasn't surprised and ended up giving it away for free to a local studio in exchange for some studio time. Glad it's one. Wallimex rocks.

Pieter12 · Nov 1, 2023

RalphLambrecht said:
I'm confused, Are you saying You are happy with the lead-gel battery? In that case,you couldhave had mine. I offered my entire Porty set, including a nice roller case on eBay for weeks but no intrest even for $50. Iwasn't surprised and ended up giving it away for free to a local studio in exchange for some studio time. Glad it's one. Wallimex rocks.

The lead-acid battery seems to work fine for me. May your Porty had something going on in it that drained the battery faster? My main complaint with the battery is the weight. I also have an extensive Hensel kit, 2 power packs, 6 heads and 2 monolights, and a bunch of related modifiers, so it would be hard to walk away from it all. Even if Hensel has been close to bankruptcy and might not be around in the near future, all the gear seems quite robust and I hope will have a reasonable service life. I also have a Dynalight pack and heads that look like they've been through two wars and they keep on working.

Mainecoonmaniac · Nov 1, 2023

harlequin said:
Hello,

Used to be I would be in a studio full of Balcar, Norman or Speedotron packs at great expense lots of power on tap but not as user friendly as most monolights.

Packs needed servicing every other year
Flashtube s cost almost as much as the head itself and a 90v trigger circuit took out a lot of newer cameras. On the other hand you could dial up more f stops on demand as needed.

Which do you prefer and why?

I know the latest profoto and broncolor Siros look fantastic but at a high price point.

I have also used dynalite packs and heads as well as old Ascors whic all worked well at the time.

Harlequin

Packs have their advantages because the heads are lighter. Monolights have packs built in so they're heavier making it hard to put on a boom. I've used strobes with packs. I think Norman packs are dangerous. I've seen one explode and the plugs sometime arcs. One thing you might want to think about are LED COB lights. They're great since they're dimmable and some could change color temperatures.

Pieter12 · Nov 1, 2023

Mainecoonmaniac said:
Packs have their advantages because the heads are lighter. Monolights have packs built in so they're heavier making it hard to put on a boom. I've used strobes with packs. I think Norman packs are dangerous. I've seen one explode and the plugs sometime arcs. One thing you might want to think about are LED COB lights. They're great since they're dimmable and some could change color temperatures.

I shudder at the thought of a 1000Ws monolight in a soft box boomed above a model. Heavy-duty stand and boom arm, lots of sand bags. And a real pain to adjust the height and angle unless you have a cantilevered boom. Assistant!

Not only are heads lighter, they are smaller and can be less expensive than a monolight--at least for the high-end products. Of course, you need a power pack but that can run 2-3 heads. The point is, a moonlight fails and would be more costly to replace than just a head that fails. And if you like a ring light (I use one at low power for fill), there is no other good choice but a power pack.

wiltw · Nov 1, 2023

Mainecoonmaniac said:
I think Norman packs are dangerous. I've seen one explode and the plugs sometime arcs.

I don't recall where I first heard this several decades ago, but I since have heard it from more than one source...
"Friends don't let friends use Normans!"

I just noticed one missing Pro from my previous post for pack+heads...heads often have a cooling fan to circulate air when they are being utilized in softboxes.

Pieter12 · Nov 1, 2023

wiltw said:
I don't recall where I first heard this several decades ago, but I since have heard it from more than one source...
"Friends don't let friends use Normans!"

I just noticed one missing Pro from my previous post for pack+heads...heads often have a cooling fan to circulate air when they are being utilized in softboxes.

Quite true, all my heads have fans. I don't remember if my Hensel monolights have a fan or not, but I rarely use them unless I need more light on set.

If I recall, Bowens, Balcar and Norman were the least expensive systems back in the day. Dynalite wasn't expensive, either, but built like a tank--and they looked like it, too. The swanky studios all had Speedotron or Broncolor setups.

wiltw · Nov 1, 2023

Pieter12 said:
Dynalite wasn't expensive, either, but built like a tank--and they looked like it, too. The swanky studios all had Speedotron or Broncolor setups.

I have owned 6 Dynalite heads and 3 power packs (M500X, M2000X) for over 30 years, and in that time only a single flash tube ever had to be replaced.

Mal Paso · Nov 2, 2023

Normans Dangerous? Nonsense! No more than any other 900 volt strobe. They are one of the few systems still in production. $8K for 2400WS and 4 heads new. Still compatible with the old 900 series.
The naysayers probably combined an empty capacitor bank with a full bank on an old P2000D, wet themselves and are still mad. There were rules for operating the older equipment if you didn't like loud bangs. I've never heard of injuries.

koraks · Nov 3, 2023

Mainecoonmaniac said:
One thing you might want to think about are LED COB lights. They're great since they're dimmable and some could change color temperatures.

Yeah, but may not always be the most cost-effective solution. If you take a very modest (and cheap) setup of 2x 200Ws strobes for some very basic portraiture, try and match this (very modest!) power level with LEDs. You'll arrive at the conclusion that to be able to shoot halfway decent shutter speeds of 1/25 and up (already restricting you to a tripod and convicting the sitter to a state of static patience...), you'll spend far more on LEDs. If you look at more high-powered strobe setups, you'll find yourself firmly in high-end SkyPanel territory - cost-prohibitive for the average amateur.

Strobes are still really hard to beat on a "Joules delivered to subject" basis.

TheFlyingCamera · Nov 3, 2023

It really depends on your needs - when I'm working with the big cameras (8x10 or 14x17) in the studio, I NEED the power that only a pack/head kit can provide. To that end I have a last model Bowens Creo 2400ws pack with two heads. I like it because it has a wireless remote I can use to adjust power up/down from the camera position. It also recycles wicked fast even at full power - in 'turbo' mode I can recycle to full power in a bit over 1 second. Try that with a speedlight.

Monolights are good especially for people learning studio lighting because you can adjust the power settings for each light individually instead of having to worry about ratios between heads. But as mentioned before, since the entire mechanism (power supply, capacitors, flash tube) are all in one unit, you do need beefier supports for them and they don't do as well on booms or overhead mounting. I still have (but haven't used in quite a while) my original set of Calumet Travelite 750 monolights. I'm thinking about moving them along to someone who would be able to use them regularly.

These days, the place where it's at is LEDs - they now have units that are BOTH a strobe and continuous light utilizing LED tech. If I were in the market for lighting gear for medium format/35mm/digital, this is where I would be investing my lighting dollars.

RalphLambrecht · Nov 3, 2023

Pieter12 said:
The lead-acid battery seems to work fine for me. May your Porty had something going on in it that drained the battery faster? My main complaint with the battery is the weight. I also have an extensive Hensel kit, 2 power packs, 6 heads and 2 monolights, and a bunch of related modifiers, so it would be hard to walk away from it all. Even if Hensel has been close to bankruptcy and might not be around in the near future, all the gear seems quite robust and I hope will have a reasonable service life. I also have a Dynalight pack and heads that look like they've been through two wars and they keep on working.

glad it worked for you. Inmy opinion, Hensel is greatly overpriced.

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