Powdered fixer

Gerry M · Jan 12, 2016

Has/is anyone used powdered fixer? I am considering Arista Premium Odorless powdered fixer. I have been using their liquid fixer with satisfactory results. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

Gerry

Sirius Glass · Jan 12, 2016

I have used the Kodak powdered fixer without any problems.

Gerry M · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks, Sirius. I wonder does unopened powder keep longer than opened liquid?

Sirius Glass · Jan 12, 2016

I have used both and I have no idea which is more stable when left unopened.

Gerry M · Jan 12, 2016

Shelf life of opened liquid vs unopened powder?

Sirius Glass · Jan 12, 2016

Gerry M said:
Shelf life of opened liquid vs unopened powder?

I cannot answer definitively. Both last a long time. Hypo does not oxidize quickly like developers do.

Gerry M · Jan 12, 2016

Thanks for your input.

MattKing · Jan 12, 2016

The powdered fixer will be the slower, non-rapid fixer.

You cannot make a rapid fixer that can be stored in powder form.

Gerry M · Jan 12, 2016

Matt,
Good point!

Gerald C Koch · Jan 12, 2016

Powdered fixers are based on sodium thiosulfate while liquid ones use ammonium thiosulfate, The latter are faster acting and have a greater capacity. However since you are paying to ship water the liquid ones are also more expensive. So you will have to check the capacity of each type against its cost.

Knowing of Kodak's expertise in single bag products I would say that Kodak Powered Fixer has the stability edge over liquid fixer concentrates. However this is not true of other manufacturers.

BTW there is a film on the obscura website which unintentionally demonstrates how NOT to mix powdered fixer.

jochen · Jan 13, 2016

Hello,
You cannot make a rapid fixer that can be stored in powder form.
Yes, you can, Tetenal sold many years plastic bags with solid normal sodiumthiosulfate fixer and with solid rapid fixer. Anhydrous ammoniumthiosulfate is available, but it is hygroscopic and gets stone hard, therefore mostly the 60 % aqueous solution ("Thiosol") is used for formulating rapid fixers.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 13, 2016

jochen said:
Hello,
You cannot make a rapid fixer that can be stored in powder form.
Yes, you can, Tetenal sold many years plastic bags with solid normal sodiumthiosulfate fixer and with solid rapid fixer. Anhydrous ammoniumthiosulfate is available, but it is hygroscopic and gets stone hard, therefore mostly the 60 % aqueous solution ("Thiosol") is used for formulating rapid fixers.

Years ago Dignan sold solid ammonium thiosulfate. Before I could use it had set to concrete. The jar that makes an excellent doorstop.

Steve Goldstein · Jan 13, 2016

Ole published a "powdered rapid fixer" formula here on APUG almost 10 years ago. It uses ammonium chloride. Here's a link:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

jeffreythree · Jan 13, 2016

I used the Arista Premium Odorless fixer for a while until I realized my nose couldn't tell much difference between odorless and odorous(?) fixers. It had good shelf life for me and worked well for everything except some Kodak T-Max 400, but that was also near the end of its' capacity. It was set up a bit in the package and took some work to get it all dissolved.

Terry Christian · Jan 13, 2016

Hypo/sodium thiosulfate fixers smell less than rapid/ammonium thiosulfate fixers, and alkaline fixers (like Formulary's TF-4 and TF-5) have almost no smell in working solution -- but they're liquid, not powdered.

mklw1954 · Jan 13, 2016

I have never used the Arista powdered fixer but always use Kodak powdered fixer and it works well. The Kodak bag has an expiration date on it.

Doremus Scudder · Jan 13, 2016

Gerry M said:
Shelf life of opened liquid vs unopened powder?

Unopened packages of powdered fixer (e.g., Kodak Fixer) last for years as long as the integrity of the bag remains intact. After mixing, a quick clip test is all you need to check fixer activity.

Liquid concentrates have a more limited lifespan, since they will eventually sulfur-out with time. Ilford's recommendation for their Rapid Fixer follows:

"STORAGE
Full, unopened bottles of ILFORD RAPID FIXER
concentrate stored in cool conditions, 520ºC
(4168ºF), will keep for two years. Once opened
use completely within six months and keep all
bottles tightly sealed until used."

That likely applies to similar products from Kodak, Tetenal, etc.

One caveat with conventional powdered fixers. When fixing "modern" tabular-grain films like T-Max or Delta films, the fixing times will be significantly longer and the capacity significantly reduced. Some even believe that sodium-thiosulfate fixers are not suitable for such films, since they have trouble fixing the silver-iodide compounds that are more prevalent in these products. Bite the bullet and use a rapid fix for tabular-grain films.

Best,

Doremus

David Lyga · Jan 14, 2016

For what it is worth: I have bought liquid fixers that are OLD and have much precipitate and are downright ugly looking. But ... they have always worked fine. I filter them to make the concentrate's ugliness disappear and, then, I am good to go. SO good, in fact, that I often wonder why the sulphur was put into the fixer to begin with!

For fixer that I make from scratch, I use sodium thiosulfate in either the anhydrous or pentahydrate form. Nothing else! But, of course, if you choose to use such a non-acidic fixer, make sure to use a fresh stop bath. - David Lyga

Paul Howell · Jan 14, 2016

Years ago at a yard sale I bought a box if Kodak fix in metal cans, expired in the 60s, of the course of 2 or 3 years used all of them without any issues.

RalphLambrecht · Jan 14, 2016

Gerry M said:
Has/is anyone used powdered fixer? I am considering Arista Premium Odorless powdered fixer. I have been using their liquid fixer with satisfactory results. Any input is appreciated.

Thanks,

Gerry

Since I mix my own,that's all I use;prefer it actually because that's what formulas most often call for;seems to be easier for shipping too;why ship water and pay for it?

Gerald C Koch · Jan 14, 2016

Sodium thiosulfate based fixer formulas can be made more rapid acting by the addition of either ammonium chloride or ammonium sulfate. An example of this would be Agfa 304 fixer. Typically 40 or 50 grams of the ammonium salt would be added to each liter. However the modified fixer is not quite as rapid as a conventional rapid fixer.

Gerry M · Jan 14, 2016

I had no idea my question would produce so many very detailed (and interesting) replies. Thanks to all for taking time to respond.

Gerry

darkroommike · Jan 22, 2016

Kodak F8 is ammonium chloride and sodium thiosulfate, about twice as fast as F5.

Powdered fixer

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