Postpone print washing

Dave Morrow · Feb 9, 2006

Hi,

I've not been in the darkroom for 6-7 months (a new baby) and am about to try some prints tonight. My time is pretty limited - I'll only get a 2 hour session. I'll be using fibre paper and was wondering about postponing the print washing until tomorrow evening.

Would it be better to:

a: Keep the prints in water for 24 hours and then wash fully tomorrow evening
b: Give them a short wash and let them dry. Then wash them fully tomorrow evening.

I can't leave the washer on overnight. Nor can I go back into the darkroom tomorrow evening (ie I can't split the session). Hope that makes sense!

Thanks,

Dave.

roy · Feb 9, 2006

I have never washed prints later but if I had to, like you, I think I would use some "hypo-clear" followed by a rinse. The protracted washing fibre prints deserve could then be carried out at a later stage. I would have thought it would be better to carry the prints over containing as few chemicals as possible. Whatever you do Dave, perhaps you will keep us posted with your experiences.

blackmelas · Feb 9, 2006

I would use a _fresh_ rapid fix and try to keep the time in the fix to the minimum allowable for full fixing, no longer than 2min. Then I would follow Roy's advice on the HCA then wash as much as possible on the first night (give it more than just a rinse, a least 5min, to keep chems off the line. clips, etc.). Then wash fully the next night and wash the line and clips just in case.
James

Monophoto · Feb 9, 2006

It's a good idea to avoid prolonged soaking. Some papers include optical brighteners that can come out of the emulsion if the prints are soaked too long.

Therefore, I would opt for a risne - hypoclear - rinse cycle on the first night, allowing the prints to dry, and then completing the wash cycle when you have more time.

By the way - I normally use screens to dry prints. If I faced the situation you are in, one of my concerns is that drying unwashed prints would contaminate my screens. That's not a biggie - as long as I recognize the problem, I can clean the screens before drying fully washed prints. But I have to remember to recognize the problem.

Ben Taylor · Feb 9, 2006

This is something I've also been thinking about. I find my self spending far less time in my darkroom than I'd like. Partly because I'm having to travel quite a way to work at the moment, leaving me only potential for an hour or two in the darkroom in the evenings. Since I work quite slowly when printing this isn't very long at all!

My plan is to spend a couple of hours one evening a week printing, then put my prints through hypoclear & a quick rinse while I'm clearing up and leave them to dry.

Then the following evening I can spend toning and fully washing them and perhaps mounting any previously finished prints I'm pleased with.

Before I'd try to do all this in one session and end up not doing anything at all because I've not had the time. I don't know what sort of effect drying the prints before fully washing them will have on my prints, but I don't like the idea of leaving them soaking for long periods.

Les McLean · Feb 9, 2006

I have left prints overnight in a holding tray of fresh water and washed and toned them the following day on many occasions and cannot say that I have noticed any problems or changes. I would not leave them any longer than 24 hours. I did once leave some Agfa Brovira in water for three days, I just forgot they were there, and when I went into the darkroom the emulsion had lifted off the paper base.

Marco Gilardetti · Feb 9, 2006

Les McLean said:
I just forgot they were there, and when I went into the darkroom the emulsion had lifted off the paper base.

YYYKES!!!

Delayed wash is what I do every time, as I have no running water facility in the darkroom. However, that usually means 4-5 hours maximum, 24 sounds a little too much for me.

When I keep prints in water longer that the usual 4-5 h, the rinse water in the tray looks no more crystal clear but often has a light greyish/bluish haze. For what I see, paper still looks okay at inspection, but clearly some unknown compound seems to have dissolved in water.

PS: don't even try with cibachromes!!!

Bob F. · Feb 9, 2006

I have left paper in water for 18 hours or so a few times: looked OK, but I did not investigate the result closely to check if any damage had ensued. I did forget some Kentmere for two or three days in a water tray and came back to a sheet of paper covered in a gelatin goo...

My preference would be to hypo-clear + short wash + dry until ready to do a full wash. If you get a vertical washer, you can just set it up and forget it for an hour or so, assuming you can ensure the water temp remains fairly stable.

Good luck, Bob.

Dave Miller · Feb 9, 2006

I frequently leave prints soaking overnight due to lack of time to complete the wash cycle, so far I have not noticed any deterioration, or emulsion damage.

Bob Carnie · Feb 9, 2006

I have hypo cleared and short wash and then left overnight in really really cold water.
Then rewash for the full time the next day.

Be careful of the emulsion when squeegee at this point, very fragile.

I have only done this in emergencys, and frankly avoid this at all times.

pentaxuser · Feb 9, 2006

Bob F. said:
I have left paper in water for 18 hours or so a few times: looked OK, but I did not investigate the result closely to check if any damage had ensued. I did forget some Kentmere for two or three days in a water tray and came back to a sheet of paper covered in a gelatin goo...

My preference would be to hypo-clear + short wash + dry until ready to do a full wash. If you get a vertical washer, you can just set it up and forget it for an hour or so, assuming you can ensure the water temp remains fairly stable.

Good luck, Bob.

Just as a matter of interest. If the size of the holding tank of water was big enough and wasn't overcrowded with prints then by how much would this cut down the final wash. From other posts, I think I have seen in APUG on saving water, it would seem that an adequate wash is largely a question of time in that the fix will leach out over time and provided the volume of water is sufficient to dilute the fix volume then time in an archival washing machine could be drastically cut at least. Indeed after say 12-18 or 24 hours in a holding tank might the expense of an archival washer be avoided and a few minutes in something simple like a Paterson forced wash tube be sufficient.

Then at least what our inquirer loses on the roundabout of time by having to wait he gains on the swings of cost by avoiding the horrendous prices for archival washers.

Pentaxuser

Nacio Jan Brown · Feb 9, 2006

I find that when I closely examine a batch of prints when dry that there are a number that don't make the quality cut for subtle reasons I couldn't see in the darkroom. For this reason I initially fix prints once, give them a brief wash, and dry them on screens. After carefully evaluating the prints dry, I select the keepers. These get resoaked, fixed a second time, treated in hypo-clear, and archivally washed. Sometimes there is a lag of a few months between making the prints and finishing the processing of the keepers. So far, no problems with this approach. (BTW-I have two sets of screens, one for use only with archivally washed prints.)

Bob F. · Feb 9, 2006

pentaxuser said:
Just as a matter of interest. If the size of the holding tank of water was big enough and wasn't overcrowded with prints then by how much would this cut down the final wash. From other posts, I think I have seen in APUG on saving water, it would seem that an adequate wash is largely a question of time in that the fix will leach out over time and provided the volume of water is sufficient to dilute the fix volume then time in an archival washing machine could be drastically cut at least. Indeed after say 12-18 or 24 hours in a holding tank might the expense of an archival washer be avoided and a few minutes in something simple like a Paterson forced wash tube be sufficient.

Then at least what our inquirer loses on the roundabout of time by having to wait he gains on the swings of cost by avoiding the horrendous prices for archival washers.

Pentaxuser

I'm not a chemist, but from my reading I would agree. Trouble is, how large would a water tank need to be in order for the concentration of fixer and byproducts to reach "archival" levels, or close to it? Sounds like a job for someone with a residual hypo test kit and a lot of time on their hands (I just got me an X-Rite 811 densitometer to go with my copy of the BTZS book so I'm tied up for the next 3 months)...

Cheers, Bob.

Dave Morrow · Feb 10, 2006

Thanks for the replies. I ended up with a quick 5 min wash and left the prints to dry in a rack (not normally used - I have screens for properly washed prints). I'll give them a proper wash this evening.

Spending my full session printing was certainly enjoyable!

Charles Webb · Feb 10, 2006

I have not had any problem with leaving prints in plain water overnight. I have soaked some papers for weeks with out having the emulsion float off the paper. The old Agfa stabilization papers, and Dupont got soft but did not lift. I am very interested in the "screens" that so many are drying on today.
who makes them? And do you like them? I made my own several years ago and they seem to work just fine with some papers.

Charlie..................

Postpone print washing

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency