Misc. Possible Vision3 50D 120/220 Run, anyone interested?

[MCB18]

I have received all the film from my Astrum group buy, and will be rolling it up over the next week or so. Because that’s finishing up pretty soon, I thought I’d test the waters for my next project. I have been planning on doing another Vision3 120/220 run since the last one I did, and this summer would be the perfect opportunity! I plan to get 50D this time.

I can get fresh Vision3 65mm film from Mercury Works. This is what I am planning to do. However, I may also have a source for 65mm film from short ends that has been cold stored since purchase. This would make the film cheaper, however it would be slightly older. If anyone is interested in me looking into this option further, let me know.

Pricing for fresh film would be as follows:

120: $14/roll
220: $25/roll
Shipping $6 per order in the US.

I can make 30 120 or 15 220 rolls from 100 ft. I would like to sell all these rolls at once.

Planning on taking orders end of June, and have a delivery date by no later than mid august, assuming all goes smoothly.

If anyone is interested please let me know!

Thanks!

 

[Gram Nylén]

that's more expensive than cine still 50d in 120 which can be processed in c41...

 

[MCB18]

that's more expensive than cine still 50d in 120 which can be processed in c41...

I am aware, but this isn’t for the folks who are buying that. This is for the folks that don’t want to buy CineStill film for several reasons (not wanting to support Cinestill as a company, not wanting halation in the images, wanting to use actual unmodified ECN-2 film, wanting the “sprocket hole” look on actual MF…), or who want fresh 220 color film.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

How hard is it to strip the anti-halation coating off after exposure so it can be processed in C-41, if it can be processed in C-41? If not, how hard is it to get and use ECN-2? I'd be interested in some 220 if it could be home processed easily enough.

 

[MCB18]

How hard is it to strip the anti-halation coating off after exposure so it can be processed in C-41, if it can be processed in C-41? If not, how hard is it to get and use ECN-2? I'd be interested in some 220 if it could be home processed easily enough.

It is fairly straightforward to remove remjet prior to development. There are several pre-baths, the simplest being a baking soda and water solution that worked extremely well for me. As far as ECN-2 chems, FPP sells a kit for $20, which is what I use for all my color film.

 

[koraks]

How hard is it to strip the anti-halation coating off after exposure so it can be processed in C-41, if it can be processed in C-41?

Note that the 'problem' with C41 processing this film is that commercial labs, especially those running minilabs, won't like the remjet stuff floating around in their developer. If you do C41 at home, your C41 developer will come out black and you may want to use it one-shot (although you could reuse it even despite the remjet), as nothing stands in the way chemically speaking of developing remjet-backed ECN2 film in C41 developer.

ECN2 developer is precisely as easy to use as C41 developer if you buy a commercial kit. If you mix the developer from scratch, you'll find this is easier to do than with C41 developer, although I don't know many people DIY mixing their C41 developer. Quite a few do it with ECN2 though, since it's relatively easy. You can use the same C41 bleach and fixer for ECN2 film.

I personally feel/see that the colors with ECN-2 developed Vision3 film are a little better than when developed in C41 developer. However, the difference can for the most part be filtered out (when wet printing or in the digital darkroom).

Hope this gives a little perspective to the matter of whether Vision3 "can" be developed in C41. The answer is, yes, it can, always, but the contamination problem may upset some labs so if you want to stay friends with your favorite lab, don't send them remjet-backed Vision3 unannounced.

 

[loccdor]

I'd be interested in 5-8 rolls of the 220.

 

[MCB18]

I'd be interested in 5-8 rolls of the 220.

Cool! I’ll pencil you in then.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Note that the 'problem' with C41 processing this film is that commercial labs, especially those running minilabs, won't like the remjet stuff floating around in their developer. If you do C41 at home, your C41 developer will come out black and you may want to use it one-shot (although you could reuse it even despite the remjet), as nothing stands in the way chemically speaking of developing remjet-backed ECN2 film in C41 developer.

ECN2 developer is precisely as easy to use as C41 developer if you buy a commercial kit. If you mix the developer from scratch, you'll find this is easier to do than with C41 developer, although I don't know many people DIY mixing their C41 developer. Quite a few do it with ECN2 though, since it's relatively easy. You can use the same C41 bleach and fixer for ECN2 film.

I personally feel/see that the colors with ECN-2 developed Vision3 film are a little better than when developed in C41 developer. However, the difference can for the most part be filtered out (when wet printing or in the digital darkroom).

Hope this gives a little perspective to the matter of whether Vision3 "can" be developed in C41. The answer is, yes, it can, always, but the contamination problem may upset some labs so if you want to stay friends with your favorite lab, don't send them remjet-backed Vision3 unannounced.

I would do it at home, and I don't have serious heartburn over using my developer one-shot (although if I could filter it to re-use that would be ideal).

 

[koraks]

I would do it at home, and I don't have serious heartburn over using my developer one-shot (although if I could filter it to re-use that would be ideal).

Sounds like you're good to go, then!
I shoot a lot of Vision3 in 35mm; I personally develop in ECN2 but have done some (rather informal) side-by-side testing with C41 as well: https://tinker.koraks.nl/photography/balancing-act-a-brief-look-at-ecn2-vs-c41-colors/ In this blog I make no secret of my preference, but I admit that especially in digital post processing, the C41-developed film color balances quite alright as well.

 

[MCB18]

I would do it at home, and I don't have serious heartburn over using my developer one-shot (although if I could filter it to re-use that would be ideal).

As I think was mentioned by Koraks, you don’t need to use the color dev one shot, any remjet that gets in the developer will stay in the developer and will not stick to anything once it’s in there. There is… a certain company that has claimed remjet ruins chems, and others have echoed it, this is simply not true. The developer just looks slightly less pretty.

You can absolutely process ECN-2 film in C-41, or even B&W chems, with no issues. Some folks don’t even bother with a pre-bath! (though I suggest using one, as it makes taking the film out to dry much less of a mess) Hope this helps you out.

 

[koraks]

It just looks slightly less pretty.

Yes - and to clarify, 'it' means the used developer here. Not the negatives.
Btw, it's possible to filter out most of the remjet material with a fine mesh filter if you're patient enough.

Some folks don’t even bother with a pre-bath!

Yeah, I'm of that persuasion. I do use the ECN2 developer one shot though because I like the thought of consistency - no aged/expired developer if you mix fresh every time.

 

[MattKing]

There is… a certain company that has claimed remjet ruins chems, and others have echoed it, this is simply not true. It just looks slightly less pretty.

However remjet will "ruin" a clean shared C-41 processing line - until it can be cleaned it out thoroughly.
It is understandable why people would conflate the two.

 

[MCB18]

However remjet will "ruin" a clean shared C-41 processing line - until it can be cleaned it out thoroughly.
It is understandable why people would conflate the two.

Yes, I guess that is a good point to clarify, minilabs will absolutely get messed up and require serious cleaning if ECN-2 film is run through them. However, this isn’t because the remjet spoils the chemicals. It’s because after the alkaline developer, the remjet will easily come off the film and get all over rollers, squeegees, and other people’s film that is run through the machine after the ECN-2 roll.

 

[koraks]

With apologies for possibly taking this too far offtopic - @MCB18 please don't hesitate to indicate it if you want this discussion to be split off into a separate thread.

However remjet will "ruin" a clean shared C-41 processing line - until it can be cleaned it out thoroughly.

While the risk undoubtedly exists, this is not necessarily true. I inquired after this when visiting a major lab last year. I informed what the impact on their continuous transport processing line was of remjet-backed film and whether it's a concern. The answer was that they don't mind too much as long as its a few rolls here and there. They do check for it, but have no stringent processes in place to weed out the remjet-backed film because of the impact is too low to justify the hassle. The chemical engineer who toured us told that the impact currently is basically zero, but if the remjet volume would pick up, it would result in filters fouling up a little quicker, so a bit more cleaning and filter replacement effort.

I was expecting a more worried response, but they basically shrugged it off. Again, I can imagine the impact on a minilab is more profound.

 

[MCB18]

With apologies for possibly taking this too far offtopic - @MCB18 please don't hesitate to indicate it if you want this discussion to be split off into a separate thread.

By all means, feel free to make a new thread or merge with an existing thread if there is one. I’m sure this information is already on here somewhere, but seems like it might be spread out over several threads. Might be worth considering making a thread dedicated to ECN-2 film, explaining the differences between it and C-41, how it can and can’t be processed, and other general information and common misconceptions regarding it.