Possible to ship chemicals in the US?

(mods: if this isn't the right forum, please move)

Has anyone had experience shipping chemicals in the US, such as premixed developers? I'd like to make a very small batch of a homebrew developer mix (only real hazards are hydroquinone, sodium carbonate, and potassium oxalate) and send it to some friends, but having trouble figuring out how that can even be done, or if it is possible without a dedicated warehouse etc. Anyone know anything about it? I'm only concerned with shipping from and within the US.

Photographers Formulary will ship most of their chemicals all around the world, let alone within the US. There are some chemicals that must go by ground shipping,

http://stores.photoformulary.com/index.php

markbau said:

Photographers Formulary will ship most of their chemicals all around the world, let alone within the US. There are some chemicals that must go by ground shipping,

http://stores.photoformulary.com/index.php

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I understand that, but I mean that I want to mix a developer myself and then send it (the mixing process is a bit of a pain, slow dissolving time and requires heating) myself. I already have the chemicals I need. I'm perfectly fine with ground shipping. It seems that "limited quantity exception" should be extremely straight forward and the easiest way to do it. The only obvious hazard I see is hydroquinone, but that only needs to be reported when shipping >100lbs of it. It seems nothing else used (propylene glycol, carbonate, oxalate, sulfite, bromide, ascorbic acid) is of any concern, at least as long as I keep the total solution to less than 1L. (it'd be 2 500ml bottles)

This is a question best asked at the post office. They do allow certain types of chems, and liquids to be shipped, but must be registered and labeled as ORM-D with ground shipping only, and I think a form has to be filed as well. Whenever I drop a package off they ask "anything liquid, perishable, or hazardous?" Again, best to ask them.

markbau said:

Photographers Formulary will ship most of their chemicals all around the world, let alone within the US. There are some chemicals that must go by ground shipping,

http://stores.photoformulary.com/index.php

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That just about answers the question. I even receive hydrochloric acid in liter sized containers by ground. The amount of super corrosive chemicals in a mixed developer would be quite small. I would not bother with PO, but inquire at FedEx or UPS if you have concerns.

Don't worry. Be happy.

Don't bother asking the Post Office - they will tell you no and an especially firm no if you tell them you mixed it yourself. UPS or FedEx is much easier to work with ORM-D materials. In your case, though, the premix may not be allowed because you don't have any MSDS, toxicity reports, flammability, oxidation or cleanup guidelines that they can look up if a spill occurs. The fine is very hefty for shipping something that creates a hazardous spill of unknown composition (and hefty for not labeling something when sent through USPS). It would be far easier, and safer, to ship each component in separate, sealed bottles and have the end user mix it. The sealed bottles need to be in a sealed bag so that if one of them leaks, it is contained.

Freestyle ships chemicals all the time. I think they use UPS.

cramej said:

Don't bother asking the Post Office - they will tell you no and an especially firm no if you tell them you mixed it yourself. UPS or FedEx is much easier to work with ORM-D materials. In your case, though, the premix may not be allowed because you don't have any MSDS, toxicity reports, flammability, oxidation or cleanup guidelines that they can look up if a spill occurs. The fine is very hefty for shipping something that creates a hazardous spill of unknown composition (and hefty for not labeling something when sent through USPS). It would be far easier, and safer, to ship each component in separate, sealed bottles and have the end user mix it. The sealed bottles need to be in a sealed bag so that if one of them leaks, it is contained.

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It's seeming more and more like that. The solution could easily be mixed into a series of % solutions (actually how I mix the working solution right now), but I'm unsure that actually helps much with shipping it. Seems the only chemicals of concern is hydroquinone (bad for health), propylene glycol (flammable -- used as stable solvent for hydroquinone), benzotriazole (bad for environment), and sodium/potassium oxalate (poisonous).. but unsure how to easily ship even the discrete chemicals together without having all of the infrastructure like 24/7 emergency contacts, filed MSDS and shipping certifications etc.

I think if this ever turns into a more serious idea I'll instead find some company to do all of this heavy lifting of mixing and shipping, and until then just maintain that it can only be hand mixed. Maybe one day could see if photographer's formulary would at least offer a custom kit or something with the ingredients for it, even if not premixed. Have some ideas on making it easier to home mix as well that I'll have to test out for shelf-life stability.

earlz said:

It's seeming more and more like that. The solution could easily be mixed into a series of % solutions (actually how I mix the working solution right now), but I'm unsure that actually helps much with shipping it. Seems the only chemicals of concern is hydroquinone (bad for health), propylene glycol (flammable -- used as stable solvent for hydroquinone), benzotriazole (bad for environment), and sodium/potassium oxalate (poisonous).. but unsure how to easily ship even the discrete chemicals together without having all of the infrastructure like 24/7 emergency contacts, filed MSDS and shipping certifications etc.

I think if this ever turns into a more serious idea I'll instead find some company to do all of this heavy lifting of mixing and shipping, and until then just maintain that it can only be hand mixed. Maybe one day could see if photographer's formulary would at least offer a custom kit or something with the ingredients for it, even if not premixed. Have some ideas on making it easier to home mix as well that I'll have to test out for shelf-life stability.

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I doubt there's an issue of shipping discrete chemicals together since there is documentation available for each one separately. It's just when they're mixed, there is no documentation or standard procedure for how to handle it. My dad used to have hazardous materials shipped to him on a regular basis when he worked for a large agricultural company. They often combined bottles into one container that were bagged separately and of course they had MSDS created and whatnot. You're not responsible for that stuff until you have a compound like your premix. I had no issue shipping powdered D-76 and fixer through UPS so long as I declared it was photographic chemicals and had the appropriate ORM-D label on the box. As far as I know, the UPS Stores won't take it, though. You have to go to a main UPS hub. There is actually a category in the ORM-D documentation specifically for photographic chemicals so it doesn't have to be any more specific than that.

Key ideas are to:

• Label the individual bottles as to their contents
• Package it so it won't leak.
• Apply the appropriate identification to the outside of the box - UPS should have these available.
• Be prepared for some questions when you drop it off for shipping.

Doing some more research, I have the following info:

* hydroquinone -- UN 3077, packing group III, "limited" inner quantity exception: 5kg (1L as a general rule), "excepted" inner quantity exception E1 (30ml/30g), "excepted" outer quantity exception for outer packaging (E1) 1kg/1L. Special provision 335 might apply for amounts greater than 10ml/10g of solid??
* propylene glycol -- not regulated
* sodium sulfite -- not regulated
* sodium/potassium carbonate -- not regulated
* benzotriazole -- (surprisingly) not regulated
* potassium bromide -- not regulated
* sodium/potassium oxalate -- UN2811, packing group III, "limited" outer quantity exception: 500g, "excepted" inner quantity exception E4 1g/1ml, "excepted" outer quantity exception E4 500g/500ml.
* oxalic acid (potential substitute for oxalate in formulation) -- UN3261, packing group III. All restrictions (excluding provision 335) the same as hydroquinone
* ascorbic acid -- not regulated

The ideal kit formulation I can see would be premixed hydroquinone at 10% within the glycol, and with 5% ascorbic acid added as part A.The other chemicals excluding oxalic/oxalate would be in a part B-1 powder container. Finally, the oxalate/oxalic would be in part B-2. Basically this skirts the regulation by producing oxalate in-solution when mixed.

Now knowing this and with more research having been done, it seems that shipping each of these as powder would be extremely simple. Just the simple limited exception sticker on the box, sturdy bottles and bags for the chemicals, and done. However, for the end user I'd really prefer to mix the hydroquinone into the glycol beforehand to make it significantly easier to use. I'm unclear if these "liquid" limits apply to solids in a solvent, or if they only apply to actual chemicals that are purely liquid (such as glycol, triethanolamine, etc). I'm assuming I'd be using the "limited quantity" method rather than "excepted".

The other confusing aspect is that most photographic suppliers I know use ORM-D, but finding information as to if this would qualify for that is even more intensely confusing than limited quantity. Also it seems ORM-D will be phased out at the end of the year, so might as well plan to use limited quantity instead. It appears with limited quantity I do not need anything other than appropriately sturdy packaging and the stripe diamond sticker, as long as it's ground shipping only. (air requires proper hazard stickers and shipping documents).

Just wish I had a contact who has any kind of experience with this

had to read transport of Dangerous goods one time, CFR 49 if I remember, and I want to forget! (here it is! https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/part-172 )
it is one size first all, which does not help when you just want to ship an envelope of hydroquinone - {for fun the DEA might get involved with that as it is used to lighten skin colour but it is not approved for that.

cmacd123 said:

had to read transport of Dangerous goods one time, CFR 49 if I remember, and I want to forget! (here it is! https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/49/part-172 )
it is one size first all, which does not help when you just want to ship an envelope of hydroquinone - {for fun the DEA might get involved with that as it is used to lighten skin colour but it is not approved for that.

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Yea, it definitely is quite the piece of regulation. Either way, I think I can keep everything within the limited quantity exception pretty easily, though then I have no idea how to get UPS to actually accept it. Apparently "some" locations accept limited quantity, but they give no info on which locations (UPS store, 3rd party shippers, etc) actually accept it.. and I'd much rather just drop it off than need to do scheduled pickup, especially since I doubt they'd pick it up from my home