Possible to dilute c-41 1:1 for one-shot development?

[morkolv]

Hi!

Has any any experience with diluting c-41 (Tetenal) when used as one-shot developer (in a jobo expert drum) ?

I develop 4x5 (and soon 5x7 in a jobo expert using 250 ml of chemicals as one-shot for up to 6 sheet of 4x5, the yield of the chemicals should be much more, but due to assumed oxidation of the chemicals I use it only once. Could it be diluted and the time increased ? Or can i re-use the chemicals within a timeframe of 1 day, one week? more ? (using procetan in the containers)

Any one with experience in this area ?

Best Regards

 

[Ed Sukach]

Tetenal C-41 is my favorite color negative developer. I *have* re-cycled it with increased times, according to the information given in the data sheet, but never diluted from the standard mixes. Most of the time I will use it as a one-shot developer .. possibly wasteful, I know, but the quality of the processing in *very* important to me.

I don't know if Tetenal has copies of their data sheets on their web site. If not, I'll retrieve one from my darkroom, and post the increased times information.

Protectan is unavailable here. I'm using butane from a butane refillable candle/ cigarette lighter source.

 

[Photo Engineer]

C41 developer cannot be diluted.

It can be reused if you follow the time chart supplied by the manufacturer to compensate for the amount of seasoning by prior use. It can also survive dilution introduced by a prewet.

A prewet is very useful in promoting uniformity.

PE

 

[Nick Zentena]

So prewets can be used with C-41? That would make temp control even more trival.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have used a prewet with all film with my Jobo and even in SS tanks for over 30 years. I get results that compare with EK and local pro lab work in terms of speed and color balance.

PE

 

[jl]

How long is recommended for the prewet? Is any change in developing time necessary with a prewet?

Jim

 

[Ronald Moravec]

When Ilford first came out with XP1, there was also a processing kit. The kit times were 5 minutes develope, then bleach fix. The film could also go thru C-41 for 3 1/4 min.

It became commonly known their kit was simply diluted C-41 for extended time.

I used Unicolor c41 for years and then stopped. After several years I went back and started to get really saturated punchy colors. I thought Kodak had ruined Ektar 25. Actually I found Unicolor had changed the developer to produce the really saturated colors. They said nothing could be done about it. Well I diluted it about 50% water so it was not so concentrated and then it produced decent negs again.

All in all, I say you can dilute it for one shot use. Try 1:1 and 5 min for a start.

 

[Gerald Koch]

The reason diluted C-41 developer will work with Ilford XP-1 film is that this film has only a single layer whereas a true color negative will have three layers, one for each primary color. Using diluted C-41 developer on color negative film will produce negatives that cannot be balanced. Either the bottom layer will receive insufficient development or the top layer will be overdeveloped. This is a false economy.

 

[Ronald Moravec]

The ones I made with diluted Unicolor printed fine. No excessive contrast or color crossovers. Filter pack was in the area of normal.

 

[Photo Engineer]

If you use a prewet, no change in development time is needed. Just make sure that you drain well to minimize dilution.

PE

 

[F80p]

*Bump*
I am a beginner in film development. But according to logic i feel dilution should work. You will have to increase the time though. Ofcourse the challenge is to find the correct time to get the right colour balance.
I maybe wrong but I really need to know this so started this thread again. Has anybody else done this with acceptable results?

 

[F80p]

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?p=451891

The above link tell that the times can be increased with no top layer over development and bottom layer underdevelopment. This has to be tried. I would have tried if i had a darkroom

 

[F80p]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zgee/3269596334/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zgee/3209122313/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dairequinlan/tags/standdevelopment/

 

[markbarendt]

*Bump*
I am a beginner in film development. But according to logic i feel dilution should work. You will have to increase the time though. Ofcourse the challenge is to find the correct time to get the right colour balance.
I maybe wrong but I really need to know this so started this thread again. Has anybody else done this with acceptable results?

You may be able to make this work in practical terms but I see little point in the exercise.

The "fresh mix" and "replenishment" rates are essentially the same for a given number of rolls. The difference is only in whether you add starter and water.

I started in C-41 with the CPAC/Trebla 55fp475 kit plus a bottle of C-41 starter, ~ $75 plus shipping.

Mini lab supply houses like Liberty, Pakor and Armadillo Photo can provide these kits or similar. These places expect you to be knowledgeable about what you want.

If I remember correctly the CPAC/Trebla kit can technically do about 300 36exp rolls. I planned on half that. That is a lot more than Tetenal and the others small retail kits can do.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I have just reviewed my 68 and 75 F processes of C41 films and find that I should amend my last posts, or at least add to them.

It is true that the C41 system does not perform well at these temperatures "As Is", but they might perform better when diluted and with extended times. I have only used 20 - 30 minutes at low temp with undiluted developers. I have used a post development soak as well, with poor results.

It is also true that you should not dilute C41 and try the 100F process with extended times. I might amend this with enough evidence to the contrary.

Therefore, it appears that you probably can dilute the developer and extend the time and get good results. But, here are my caveats..... There were no normal check examples in the references given here and there was no temperature given in those same examples.

With that in mind, it may warrant further examination.

Remember though that the printing or scanning process can remove a lot of "defects" from the original negative and lead us to incorrect conclusions and therefore reference "correctly processed" negatives of the same scene are needed to make a convincing argument.

PE

 

[Daire Quinlan]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/zgee/3269596334/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/zgee/3209122313/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dairequinlan/tags/standdevelopment/

I've had some success with semi stand dev and diluted C-41 developer as you've linked above. I detail it in the tags, it was 9+1 dilution (ie 50ml of C-41 developer to 450ml water to make up 500ml IIRC), and I semi-stand developed for 45 minutes with a couple of inversions at the 30 minute mark. Medium format gave me good results, colour balance was out though naturally, although not un-correctably, and it was quite contrasty. 35mm was another story.

This gives the few that I have up from that roll of portra that I ran through the above process.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=31589949@N00&q=c-41+stand+development+120&m=text

 

[Photo Engineer]

And the temperature?

PE

 

[Daire Quinlan]

And the temperature?

It was a room temperature stand dev, so roughly 20c or slightly under I suppose ? Not too sure.

 

[nickandre]

The developer capacity is 10 sheets per liter. You're already pushing it don't hurt the poor film anymore.

 

[Athiril]

I've had some success with semi stand dev and diluted C-41 developer as you've linked above. I detail it in the tags, it was 9+1 dilution (ie 50ml of C-41 developer to 450ml water to make up 500ml IIRC), and I semi-stand developed for 45 minutes with a couple of inversions at the 30 minute mark. Medium format gave me good results, colour balance was out though naturally, although not un-correctably, and it was quite contrasty. 35mm was another story.

This gives the few that I have up from that roll of portra that I ran through the above process.
http://www.flickr.com/search/?w=31589949@N00&q=c-41+stand+development+120&m=text

oops was about to post your results