[Expired] Possible group film purchase, medium and large formats, thoughts?

[MCB18]

Considering buying a large roll of either Aviphot 200 (an IR-sensitive B&W film, also great for reversal because of its clear base) or Aerocolor IV (a color film suitable for C-41 or E-6 processing because of its clear base) in 5 inch width. With these stocks, it could be an ultra-cheap source of MF and 4x5 film. However, to make this a viable project, I would need a few more people who are interested in either 120, 220, or 4x5 film to commit to buying film.

The reason I’m not posting this in the classifieds is that I am not sure this idea will get off the ground, and I’m just gauging interest (which I honestly don’t think there will be, but thought I’d see anyway), though do let me know if it should go there.

Rough prices would be:
Aviphot 200 - 4x5, 25 sheets: $30
Aviphot 200 - 220, 1 roll: $10
Aviphot 200 - 120, 1 roll: $6

Aerocolor IV - 4x5, 25 sheets: $75
Aerocolor IV - 220, 1 roll: $25
Aerocolor IV - 120, 1 roll: $15

Plus $5 shipping in the US, international shipping will be calculated when film is packed, though expect $30 minimum. Specific logistics would be determined upon the minimum order of film being net.

To make this purchase viable, I would need a minimum order of 300 sheets of 4x5, 30 rolls of 220, 60 rolls of 120, or some combination of the above (such as 150 sheets of 4x5, 25 rolls of 220, and 10 rolls of 120). I would only be getting one film stock.

Update May 19: This attempt did not succeed, but there is a new one focusing on Aviphot 200 specifically; please see here: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/possible-aviphot-200-5x7-4x5-220-and-120-purchase.199361/

 

[greg zinselmeier]

I’ve bought fresh rolls (24cm x 76m) from distributor of agfa aviphot. That cost is about a 1000 USD. If you buy expired aviphot 200 film from India it’s about 1/5 of the price. I do my own cutting for 8x10 and roll films. It’s best to cut as you need. Unless you have machinery that will cut this and package it professionally.

 

[MCB18]

I’ve bought fresh rolls (24cm x 76m) from distributor of agfa aviphot. That cost is about a 1000 USD. If you buy expired aviphot 200 film from India it’s about 1/5 of the price. I do my own cutting for 8x10 and roll films. It’s best to cut as you need. Unless you have machinery that will cut this and package it professionally.

Oh, they sell it fresh? I didn’t realize that! I might have to ask if cutting 61.5mm film is possible, but MOQ might be prohibitive.

As far as cutting and packing film, I would cut the 4x5 sheets with a rototrim that has a stop built in, specifically made for cutting rolls to sheets. I would get a slitter for 61.5mm film made, and cut the roll to 65 inches long, and then maje either 2 220 rolls, or 4 120 rolls with the 5 x 65 inch strip. Rollfilm would be rolled in paper by hand, and would have stickies at both ends. It would also be wrapped in red paper to prevent light leaks, similar to in function to the foil wrapper that Ilford, Kodak, and Fuji use. 4x5 would be put in a plastic bag, and then in an envelope, similar to old style Ilford paper. I wish I had machinery to do this, but I don’t, it would all be done by hand. Here is a picture of rollfilm I have made before:

 

[mshchem]

Isn't this just old expired film?

 

[MCB18]

Isn't this just old expired film?

The Agfa would be expired in 2014, however I have used this film (earlier batch, expired 2012) and it is just fine, stored well, minimal speed loss.

The Kodak would be fresh stock from the factory.

 

[koraks]

The reason I’m not posting this in the classifieds is that I am not sure this idea will get off the ground

I've moved it to Member Organized Functions for now because it seems to fit there quite well; it's also not solely for B&W (where it was originally posted).

 

[koraks]

On a personal note, I'd be interested in the 4x5 Aerocolor, but I'm afraid that shipping + duties will make it less attractive for Europeans like myself. For instance, a single box would probably cost me around €125 when all's said and done - still significantly cheaper than fresh still film (e.g. Ektar), but somewhat pricey for an experiment/plaything. I'd still seriously consider it, though!

 

[Rick A]

Hmm, no choices for 5x7 or 8x10? Guess I'm out.

 

[MCB18]

I've moved it to Member Organized Functions for now because it seems to fit there quite well; it's also not solely for B&W (where it was originally posted).

Thanks for putting it in a better spot, wasn’t sure exactly where it belonged at first.

On a personal note, I'd be interested in the 4x5 Aerocolor, but I'm afraid that shipping + duties will make it less attractive for Europeans like myself. For instance, a single box would probably cost me around €125 when all's said and done - still significantly cheaper than fresh still film (e.g. Ektar), but somewhat pricey for an experiment/plaything. I'd still seriously consider it, though!

Cool! I’ll definitely see where this goes!

Hmm, no choices for 5x7 or 8x10? Guess I'm out.

Not for 8x10, but 5x7 is definitely possible, I just completely forgot about it. Sorry! would probably be around 1.5x the price of 4x5, so for Aerocolor, $115 per 25 sheets, and Aviphot, $45 per 25 sheets.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

I could be persuaded to purchase 2 4x5 boxes of Aviphot 200... I think this stuff is the same as the Rollei Superpan 200 that I have been playing around with...

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Just saw the "no international shipping", so that leaves me out...

 

[koraks]

Just saw the "no international shipping", so that leaves me out...

Oh, yeah. Same here. But if OP is willing to reconsider, so would I

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Oh, yeah. Same here. But if OP is willing to reconsider, so would I

Great! I switched my vote back to interested

 

[MCB18]

Just saw the "no international shipping", so that leaves me out...

I’m willing to ship internationally, but CONUS is still preferred. I can’t provide a flat shipping rate like in the US, but it will be at least $30 from past experience.

 

[greg zinselmeier]

Dude, I have a lot from India, 2012-2014. I shoot 8x10. There is fog in the area of .10 of b+f. Speed is diminished, and longer development is required compared to my fresh roll from 22, even my roll what little is left does not lose speed. But the 10 year old stuff has lost speed. I have notice 1 stop difference + 20% extra dev. Time. To match fresh. The base is .04. It thin for film Holders. Just as a side note. In 2017, I could buy a roll for 550 USD, that is 300 sheets of 8x10. Two years later is was 650, now it’s about a 1000. The stuff from India is good !??!? What you would expect from expired film. The fog helps the toe for sure, and the sluggishness in dev. Helps not to blow out the highlights.

 

[MCB18]

Dude, I have a lot from India, 2012-2014. I shoot 8x10. There is fog in the area of .10 of b+f. Speed is diminished, and longer development is required compared to my fresh roll from 22, even my roll what little is left does not lose speed. But the 10 year old stuff has lost speed. I have notice 1 stop difference + 20% extra dev. Time. To match fresh. The base is .04. It thin for film Holders. Just as a side note. In 2017, I could buy a roll for 550 USD, that is 300 sheets of 8x10. Two years later is was 650, now it’s about a 1000. The stuff from India is good !??!? What you would expect from expired film. The fog helps the toe for sure, and the sluggishness in dev. Helps not to blow out the highlights.

I have found that shooting at 200 is fine, pushed half a stop in dev, which is about 2 extra minutes (10 minutes in HC-110 instead of 8). Grain is slightly larger, but also not insanely huge. Shooting at 100 speed is also fine, dev for normal time, and the grain is very small. Highlights are good, blacks are dark, and it makes good slide film at 100 ISO. Still working on precise times, but 12 minutes first dev in HC-110 A seems to work great. IR exposures work well at 6-12 ISO on sunny, cloudless days. I can probably post pictures, but they will be crap because my DSLR setup is terrible.

 

[henryyjjames]

I would definitely be interested, probably more so in the Aerocolor.

 

[MattKing]

I've tweaked the thread title, in order to remove possible confusion as to the format.

 

[greg zinselmeier]

I have found that shooting at 200 is fine, pushed half a stop in dev, which is about 2 extra minutes (10 minutes in HC-110 instead of 8). Grain is slightly larger, but also not insanely huge. Shooting at 100 speed is also fine, dev for normal time, and the grain is very small. Highlights are good, blacks are dark, and it makes good slide film at 100 ISO. Still working on precise times, but 12 minutes first dev in HC-110 A seems to work great. IR exposures work well at 6-12 ISO on sunny, cloudless days. I can probably post pictures, but they will be crap because my DSLR setup is terrible.

Can you share your curve (H&D) with time and temp agitation cycle please.

 

[abruzzi]

I'm definitely in for some 4x5 and 5x7.

It might be fun to shoot some CN without an orange mask.

 

[btaylor]

Definitely interested in the 4x5 both b&w and color. Printing RA4 I guess I could use a fixed sheet of C41 above the neg carrier to simulate the orange mask?

 

[Bronson Dugnutt]

It might be fun to shoot some CN without an orange mask.

Don't take it as gospel, but the Aerocolor mask seems to be dependent on processing. It won't necessarily have a completely clear base as with print films or aviphot.



Positive scan -> invert -> black point

 

[Oldwino]

I would definitely be interested in Aerocolor in 120.
The Aviphot seems to be available from CatLabs…

 

[koraks]

I could use a fixed sheet of C41 above the neg carrier to simulate the orange mask?

That's what I'd try if you can't get close enough with just the Y and M filters.

 

[halfaman]

My Durst Laborator 1200 color head has a lever to add a sumplementary yellow and magenta filtering for unmasked color negatives precisely, so no problem here.