Positive to Instant - Possibilities?

[bvy]

This has been on my mind for a while. With so many processes and products now gone, what are the possibilities/limitations of enlarging or contact printing positive transparencies to instant color film? I know there were once devices that used to do this (Vivitar made one), but I think I'm interested in a more hands-on approach. Impossible Project will be releasing 8x10 instant color film in the spring, and that got me to thinking about this.

I realize nothing along these lines (including RA-4 reversal and internegative processes) is going to make a perfect reproduction, but I'm willing to trade accuracy for originality, if the final result has something to offer.

Thoughts?

 

[bvy]

I thought there was enough of a precedent for this that people would have some ideas. Maybe not. I have some expired Spectra film that I'd be willing to experiment with. All I need is some ideas for starting filtration and exposure -- that's what I'm having trouble finding. Oh, and a slide carrier (currently posted in WTB).

 

[Prof_Pixel]

When I worked on the Kodak Instant System, I used to use my Omega B-8 enlarger to print slides on Kodak Instant Film picture units. I don't remember the filtration, but it wasn't difficult to figure out.

 

[bvy]

Thanks. On a related note (and as a matter of curiosity) were you involved at all with Ektaflex? I understand there were technical, not to mention legal, problems that spelled its quick demise. But I've read that the results were quite impressive.

 

[Prof_Pixel]

The Ektaflex and Instant Film groups were both part of the Diffusion Transfer Community at Kodak and we worked closely together since both products used the same dye-releaser technology. I did quite a bit of Ektaflex testing (including making prints in my basement with the temperature about 65 degrees). The reason for it's demise was the dye-releaser technology. The dye-releasers were expensive and when Kodak lost the Polaroid lawsuit, the major use of the dye-releasers was gone and the expense/volume didn't justify further manufacture. Thus Ektaflex was discontinued.

Fuji obtained the dye-releaser technology in a patent trade and used it in their Pictrography printers (and of course, Instax film).

 

[EdSawyer]

The vivitar instant slide printer is still a viable option. I think I still have one I am not using...

 

[winger]

I've used my enlarger (Beseler 45MX) to project slides onto Type 55 with reasonable success. I'm fairly sure I've also done it to the Fuji variations to get prints, but not as recently. I think I needed to add some filtration to get the "right" colors and used sample gels from Rosco to do that. I'd give you the aperture and times I used for the T55, but they're taped to the enlarger which is four states away now. I think it was f32 for about 5 seconds, but that doesn't help much without knowing the enlarger height and lens. I got the starting point (which was VERY close) from an old Polaroid magazine that I'd borrowed (and, of course, no longer have).

 

[bvy]

I got the starting point (which was VERY close) from an old Polaroid magazine that I'd borrowed (and, of course, no longer have).

Thanks. I'd be curious to find that issue of that magazine. Was it the Polaroid "P" Magazine?

 

[johnielvis]

the polaprinter will work with the fuji instant color, but it has to be modifed slightly since the polaroid material was slower. If you get the exposure right, they look pretty good--kodachromes come out very very contrasty though.

The exposure process needs no filtration because it uses electronic flash. You could mount an electronic flash or studio strobe in the enlarger and that would work. Alternatively they now have these daylight balanced flourescent bulbs that should work with no filtration. Exposure, of course, you'll have to determine by experiment, just like with regular paper.

The black and white 3000 speed works very well for black and white slides when used in regular enlargers, and will probably work good with color film as well. The higher contrast of the kodachrome would likely look better in black and white.

 

[winger]

Thanks. I'd be curious to find that issue of that magazine. Was it the Polaroid "P" Magazine?

It might have been. I borrowed the magazines from a guy who used to run a camera store or was a pro, not sure which. I think he lives somewhere between Greensburg and Washington, PA. I had to give them to someone else he'd promised them to, but I might be able to track them down or at least what they were. I know they were only about 10-15 pages and were a heavier stock.

 

[NedL]

Resurrecting this thread, I might be thinking of something a bit crazy. I want to make a negative color print on some fuji fp100c. My harebrained idea is:

1) I have a fixed focus 5x7 camera made out of matboard sitting unused on a shelf. I could cut it and extend it and turn it into a 1:1 reproduction copy camera. I would take a pack of fp100c out of my old polaroid and load in the dark, make a long exposure, then put it back into the polariod to pull it through the pressure bars.

2) Remove the negative early ( right? I want a good dense color negative. )

3) Clear off the back of the negative with bleach.

4) Put the negative in my enlarger and place the fp100c pack on the baseboard... make the exposure, then back again into the polaroid to develop it. I have a negative carrier I made for 122 film and I can't quite reach the corners with my 105mm lens, but I think it might just cover a fp100c negative... and anyway no problem if it doesn't quite get it all.

I've got plenty of empty fp100c packets here that I can use to "pre focus" my copy camera and enlarger... I just have no idea about removing the packs, exposing them, then putting them back in without messing everything up.

Also: I don't care too much about color accuracy, just that light colors become dark and dark become light.... I'm starting with a negative on paper that cannot be contact printed.

 

[bvy]

I'm a little confused as to what you're starting with and what you're trying to achieve. Anyway, have you seen this?:
http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_6525.html

 

[NedL]

I'm a little confused as to what you're starting with and what you're trying to achieve. Anyway, have you seen this?:
http://new55project.blogspot.com/2010/04/blog-post_6525.html

I hadn't seen that, thanks for the link. That's the bleach process I was imagining using to "reclaim" the color negative.

I know what I wrote is hard to follow, it's a bit complicated, but basically I want to try exposing FP100C outside of my polaroid camera and then put it back into the camera in order to pull the tab and develop it. I have no idea if this is possible. I'm going to wait until there is only one exposure left in a pack and then try it.... that way I won't lose more than one picture if it doesn't work

I'm starting with a negative image on paper that I already have, and want to end with a positive image on fp100c. Normally these would be done by scanning and "inverting" the colors in software, but I'm trying to find an analog way to accomplish something similar, and came up with this crazy idea....

 

[bvy]

It's not so crazy. I've done this with Polaroid 600 film -- that is, taken a single frame and exposed it in a homemade camera, then popped it back in the instant camera and triggered it in darkness to develop it. In theory, something similar should work for Fuji pack film, but I've never tried it. My experience with it is limited. Truthfully, I've never been overly impressed with the images, and I still find all that goop somewhat intimidating.

Still, I could see its value in a process like what you're describing, and I hope you'll come back and share your results.

 

[NedL]

Well I've been having some fun playing with this idea. First of all, the answer to my main question is "yes"... it is trivially easy to remove a pack of FP100-C from a camera, do something with it, then put it back in and pull the tab.
You don't need to worry... it will work the first time and it is easy to do it in the dark. Far easier than handling 4x5 film for example.

I made a pinhole copy of my paper negative onto FP100-C, and it looks neat, it has some blue cast, but looks nice.
I used the same instructions bvy linked above to "reclaim" the negative and it too was easy and worked very well. There is an obvious positive image on the negative. I don't use color film very much, but it seems a bit low contrast and maybe thin. My homemade 122 carrier was actually too big, but it fits in a 6x9 carrier very well.

So... the only problem I've run into is a mundane one. With the bellows fully extended on my enlarger, I can't make the projected image small enough. I think there is some way to use an enlarger to make reductions or 1:1 copies, but I don't know how to do it, so off to read about that...

This is kind of funny:
I made two test exposures of a part of the image. It was difficult to see well enough to focus. The first one I stopped down a couple clicks and counted out about 20s. It was obviously underexposed ( too light ). So the 2nd one I opened the lens all the way and let it go 15 seconds. Whoa! even lighter! OOPS! I'm trying to make a POSITIVE! Lighter = overexposed! I'll try another one soon with a shorter exposure!

Edit: the "reduction" was easy: switch back to my 50mm lens and stick a book under the easel.. then extend enlarger bellows and find the place where focus is achieved.... a little back and forth to get it right, I think I actually ended up making a slight enlargement. This time it was easier to see to focus. I was tempted to push the negative into the FP100-C pack and try for a contact print.... results soon but I have to get back to work right now.

 

[NedL]

I made a new (there was a url link here which no longer exists), if anyone is interested.

The best thing that came out of it is learning that it is easy to move FP-100C around to use it in different ways. That has possibilities!!!