Positive news from Fujifilm

Hello,

positive news from Fujifilm:

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/fujifilm-hails-golden-era-for-silver-halide-paper-26280

This news is in line with reports from Kodak Alaris and Photostar / Tura (big supplier [private lable] of RA-4 paper in Africa, Asia and South America).
Had a lot of talks about that topic at Photokina.
The silver-halide RA-4 paper market remains strong, and is indeed increasing again in several countries.
This market is by far the biggest market for classic silver-halide photo products in general, with an estimated volume again of 700 - 800 million m² a year.
With Fujifilm as strong market leader, followed by Kodak Alaris, and the third in the game being Lucky.

At photokina 2012 Fujifilm introduced new RA-4 papers.
This photokina Kodak Alaris introduced one new RA-4 paper.
I've been told at Photokina this year that several Minilab owners have returned to classic wet RA-labs, because of horrible experiences with new dry labs (repair costs of more than 10,000€ a year for new dry labs, and the repair people even did not get the machine running properly).
Well, the RA-4 paper process
- delivers excellent quality (still better than any other process)
- has the lowest costs
- is very fast
- is mature; the process works flawlessly for lots of years now.

It looks like photographers are now (slowly) re-discovering all these strengths.

There are further positive news from the Photokina.
I will give you all a detailed report soon here in this sub-forum.
Please stay tuned.

Best regards,
Henning

Good news, indeed! I didn't know that the printing equipment was so hard and expensive to maintain. Guess, sometimes, digital isn't so cheap after all.

The strenght of the RA-4 market (especially in Europe with easy access of cheap prints) did not stop Fuji to stop their own base-making for RA-4 in Europe some time ago.

Fuji also has one big customer in Europe. Though having one big client can be tricky too.


Strength thus has to be related to the current situation with changes in demand and players, and not to the situation of the past. But yes, RA-4 is still a remarkable seller in an otherwise mostly declining market.

wait, 2012 or 2014 photokina?
what are these new papers called and when will they be available?

Thanks Henning!

Henning Serger said:

It looks like photographers are now (slowly) re-discovering all these strengths.

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`
I'm puzzled. What or rather who do you mean by that? Professional photographers?

Industrial finishers or minilabs, as you are refering to, are typically used by amateurs.
(Well, they might see advanteges in RA-4 prints too.)
Or do you see an increase of use of RA-4 at photo-labs directed at professional photographers?

anything that keeps RA-4 going is good news, no matter what!

Thanx

I did not want to be bickering (in case it seems that way), just a plain question about these photographers.

Most of the RA-4 output from the labs around here is being purchased by a mix of professional, advanced amateur and student/art/lomography crowd.

They have quite an eclectic mix in their customer base, and there is a decent amount of competition.

Leaving out the high street mini-labs that so many photographers rely on for prints, I can provide some observations.
There is a definite resurgence in the use of wet RA-4 print production by professionals and artists, much less though students or amateurs. And these are not home darkroom prints. This point is being made from an Australian perspective where major pro-level labs are using both Kodak and Fuji RA-4 media for production requisitioned by people in the arts, wedding, corporate or advertising fields.

There is something else. My view is that RA-4 production has a direct and copious (but not a sole) link to E6 material use e.g. prints from transparencies. The three labs I deal with are kept busy this way, not with prints from C-41, but printing from E6. I think if something happens with E6 it will have a knock-on effect to RA-4 printing, so Kodak and Fuji must still believe there is a flame on the stack out there to release new materials. I was told a fortnight ago that the machinery for this printing is quite old and maintenance costs are very high. So once the pro-labs scuttle these ancient dinosaurs it will be left to the relatively feeble amateur home darkroom market to power RA-4 along, in much smaller quantities.

For a long time now I have used Kodak's RA-4 media with an occasional foray into using Fuji's, which is thought to be a bit more difficult to work with.

???????????? Poisson? RA4 is downright easy for home darkroom use if someone has a basic colorhead and proper ventilation. In some ways it's easier and certainly cheaper than black and white printing, once you understand the basics. In terms of minilabs and photofinishing services foramateur snapshots, a lot of people are downright unhappy with the look of the alternatives, if they're desirous of prints, that is. But lots of them just post their shots online nowadays, right from their little cell phones or whatever. Pro labs around here have been offering a full range of RA4 prints all along. It's cheaper to do than large-format inkjet, and again, many clients prefer the look. And are you confusing E6 with C41? E6 is for developing chromes (slides and color transparencies) which cannot be directly reproduced onto RA4 material. You'd first have to scan them and output them onto some kind of laser printer like a Lambda or Chromira, which is rather expensive compared to direct enlargement. C41 development is easy to get and not in any danger, though I realize that there are certain supply peculiarities down under.

RA-4 isn't just for wet minilabs, a lot of pro labs offer prints using Chromiras, Lightjets or Lambdas that also use the RA-4 chemical process. These are not old machines you can buy them brand new right now.

Yeah, but even a well-USED Chromira or Lambda, along with an automated feed-cutter, and automated output large-volume RA4 processor, along with the daily expense and routine maintenance is not anything which is going to tempt the home user, who might not even have enough
wattage installed for all that. It's more of an, uh, industrial thing. BUT the same damn RA4 paper can be used in a tray or rotating tube of plastic. Used color processing drums are dirt cheap. Colorheads are easy to come by. Why shouldn't it catch on, once the myth that it is difficult has exploded. All kinds of people printed color negs at home before. Nothing has changed except all those advertising bucks behind the consumer electronics industry, convincing you that you can't even scratch your ear without the latest and greatest digi gadget. Color neg film is better than ever, and still available in every major format.

You are right Drew, but I doubt Henning was refering to people homeprocessing RA-4 after optical exposure for causing that increase.

Always happy to hear positive news for RA-4! Long live the wet print! It is great that most/all of the large pro-labs that I have looked at still print RA-4, and for good reason.

Great news!

Jeff

I know I got some film back that had been printed on a dry lab, and could see some streaks.

Hello Bruce,

sorry for my late replies. Too much work in the last days.

bsdunek said:

Good news, indeed! I didn't know that the printing equipment was so hard and expensive to maintain. Guess, sometimes, digital isn't so cheap after all.

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Well, the dry lab in the example I mentioned did not work properly and needed such high repair costs. But even despite all repairs it did not work properly in the end. Therefore the owner returned it and is now happy again with a proper working 'traditional' wet RA-4 mini lab.
One of my local labs is using the Agfa d-lab.2 and d-lab.2 plus ( http://www.foto-weckbrodt.de/d-lab 2.htm ). Due to the experience of the lab owner it is still the best mini-lab system on the market. He said he will never give it away. And as there is full service and maintenance offered by Saal ( Dead Link Removed ) he is looking with optimism into the future .
By the way is was quite astonishing to see quite a few of different companies at Photokina which have been specialised on producing spare parts for mini-labs from all manufacturers.

Best regards,
Henning

AgX said:

Fuji also has one big customer in Europe. Though having one big client can be tricky too.

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Don't worry. They indeed do have more than one big customer......

Best regards,
Henning

wildbill said:

wait, 2012 or 2014 photokina?
what are these new papers called and when will they be available?

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Fujifilm introduced new RA4 papers already at Photokina 2012. That were silver-halide RA-4 papers for photo books. The photo book market is increasing in Europe.
And Kodak Alaris introduced a new RA-4 paper this Photokina:
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/prof...emierCanvas.jhtml?pq-path=13318/13335/2301669

Best regards,
Henning

AgX said:

I did not want to be bickering (in case it seems that way), just a plain question about these photographers.

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Both professionals and serious amateurs.
There is also the "activate your megapixels" campaign for making prints in the Digital Imaging area. And lots of digital photographers have their pictures be printed on RA-4.
Because of the low cost and high quality. Silver-halide RA-4 has by far the best price-performance ratio for colour prints.

Best regards,
Henning

DREW WILEY said:

???????????? Poisson? RA4 is downright easy for home darkroom use if someone has a basic colorhead and proper ventilation. In some ways it's easier and certainly cheaper than black and white printing, once you understand the basics. In terms of minilabs and photofinishing services foramateur snapshots, a lot of people are downright unhappy with the look of the alternatives, if they're desirous of prints, that is. But lots of them just post their shots online nowadays, right from their little cell phones or whatever. Pro labs around here have been offering a full range of RA4 prints all along. It's cheaper to do than large-format inkjet, and again, many clients prefer the look. And are you confusing E6 with C41? E6 is for developing chromes (slides and color transparencies) which cannot be directly reproduced onto RA4 material. You'd first have to scan them and output them onto some kind of laser printer like a Lambda or Chromira, which is rather expensive compared to direct enlargement. C41 development is easy to get and not in any danger, though I realize that there are certain supply peculiarities down under.

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You don't even need the color head. I produced color prints to my own immense satisfcation and never owned a color head - just a condenser head with a filter drawer and a set of cheap filters is all you need. It's a bit slower but really not much so, more "less convenient" than in any way inferior. Heck, RA4 is so fast I can even use a diffusion glass under the lower condenser stack (Omega D2V) - the one that works as a diffusion source but makes B&W unbearably slow - and use it fine to get the dust minimizing effects of diffusion too.

OTOH - and I saw the mention of Lamda etc but no direct comment on this - he DID mean E6, I'm sure. No it doesn't print directly on RA4 but with these machines that scan the original then digitally expose the paper with computer controlled color lasers the original can be either negative or positive and make little difference.

Hi Roger,

Roger Cole said:

OTOH - and I saw the mention of Lamda etc but no direct comment on this - he DID mean E6, I'm sure. No it doesn't print directly on RA4 but with these machines that scan the original then digitally expose the paper with computer controlled color lasers the original can be either negative or positive and make little difference.

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exactly.
Wonderful prints on silver-halide RA-4 paper can be made via laser-exposure from E6 colour reversal film as well.
Lots of professional and fine art photographers are doing it.
More amateurs should join in as well.....

But that is only one of the numerous options we have with reversal film.
It is indeed one of the unique strengths of reversal film that its versatility / universalism is unsurpassed.
No other photographic medium can offer so much different options of using it.
And this has been also one reason (there are of course some more) for reversal film being the dominant medium in professional photography.

Reversal film can be
- simply held to light to be looked at, you already have a finished picture in excellent quality
- viewed with a slide viewer enlarged
- presented on a light box with an excellent slide loupe (e.g. the loupes from Schneider-Kreuznach, Rodenstock, Emo, Leica etc.); that delivers an enlarged picture with outstanding optical quality and an almost three-dimensional look
- projected with a slide projector with excellent projection lens:
That delivers a breathtaking, unique and unsurpassed quality with bigger enlargements at minimal, negligible costs. The colour brillance, sharpness, fineness of grain and resolution performance of slide projection with excellent projection lenses cannot be achieved by other means (we did all these tests in our test lab)
- direct prints on paper with Ilfochrome: yes, it is still available because some professional labs have bought huge stocks from the last production run and still offer Ilfochrome prints
- direct prints on BW paper with the Harman Direct Positive Paper (fibre base)
- direct prints on BW paper with the Imago Direct Positive Paper (Melinex base, same base as Ilfochrome has, with its outstanding brillance)
- scan and print on RA-4 paper, or display film (for poster-sized slides on big light boxes, looks stunning), or inkjet paper.

I really like and use this unique versatility of reversal film. Gives me freedom and lots of creative uses.

Best regards,
Henning

My printing is done on a Pegasus to Kodak Endura Professional metallic media;images scanned, colourimetrics, profiling, USM, despecking, resampling and output. The resulting prints give Ilfochrome Classic a kick in the backside (nobody uses that here now with so many excellent alternatives available), especially since there is none of the toil and sweat of working through contrast and filtration. My prints have sold recently for $1340 for a 60x70cm 6x7 landscape. There are many more smaller (12x16) prints coming out each fortnight. I agree that many more amateurs should join in this. The quality is profound, but photographers must know what they are doing too; e.g. get the scene and exposure right in-camera!) Curiously, we never see much of Fuji's print media; it must be confined to minilabs/kiosks, because the two labs that I have intensive work with only use Kodak's.