position of filter matters?

[chris77]

hello apug.
from your experience, does the position of multigrade filters in the lightpath make any difference in the result?
cheers,
chris

 

[Barrie B.]

hello apug.
from your experience, does the position of multigrade filters in the lightpath make any difference in the result?
cheers,
chris

Short answer - NO - in fact Ilford sell a set of 'below the lens ' filters , a set of three small grub screws grip on the lens body and there are a set of filters , one of which is slid into the slot for exposures.
Cheers Barrie B. Melbourne , Australia

 

[chris77]

Short answer - NO - in fact Ilford sell a set of 'below the lens ' filters , a set of three small grub screws grip on the lens body and there are a set of filters , one of which is slid into the slot for exposures.
Cheers Barrie B. Melbourne , Australia

yes. tx for your quick answer.
i was just wondering if the optical quality of the under the lens filters is different from the ones for the drawer?

 

[Ian Grant]

As Barrie says - No. I used a below the lens set for amny years no problems at all.

Ian

 

[darkroommike]

I have read in numerous places on the Internet (so it must be true, right?) that Ilford's below the lens filters and above the lens (filter drawer sets) filters are cut from the same stock of optical plastic. The only difference is the frames that are snapped around the below the lens filters. I also read that the last sets of Kodak filters, PCIII and Polymax, were made for Kodak in England (perhaps by Harmon or Ilford?).

If you handle your filters carefully and replace the filters in the holder box when you are done with them your below the lens filters will last a long, long time without degradation. If you are more casual in your approach and use dirty, faded, and scratched below the lens filters your results will be sub optimum. With filters in a drawer above the negative, defects have much less effect.

 

[Saganich]

I've tried filters in 4 places: below film, between film and condensers, between light source and condenser, and between film and lens. They all worked except the last one.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I've tried filters in 4 places: below film, between film and condensers, between light source and condenser, and between film and lens. They all worked except the last one.

This is correct. If you place filters above the lens and below the film at most any place, image sharpness can be degraded. Kodak used to warn of this in their Color and B&W manuals.

PE

 

[AgX]

II also read that the last sets of Kodak filters, PCIII and Polymax, were made for Kodak in England (perhaps by Harmon or Ilford?)

Likely Lee Filters.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

If you use filters below the lens you should focus with the filter in place just to be safe. Personally, since I split print, I focus with the blue filter in place or magenta light since it will have the most effect on sharpness. You may experience a slight focus shift with the filter below the lens, though I have never tested it myself. Gel filters, or polyester filters, can cause a slight focus shift with making photographs just for reference. My personal preference would be to color the light, but a filter below the lens shouldn't make any difference in the real world. I do it both ways. The Saunders 4x5 enlarger I have has a VCCE head so it colors the light, and I use blue/green glass filters below the lens with my 35mm Focomat. The autofocus on my Focomat is calibrated with the blue filter.

Hope that helps.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

hello apug.
from your experience, does the position of multigrade filters in the lightpath make any difference in the result?
cheers,
chris

not as long as they are reasonably centered

 

[AgX]

. You may experience a slight focus shift with the filter below the lens, though I have never tested it myself. Gel filters, or polyester filters, can cause a slight focus shift with making photographs just for reference.

If at all then rather with the filter between lens and film.

 

[Ian Grant]

I have read in numerous places on the Internet (so it must be true, right?) that Ilford's below the lens filters and above the lens (filter drawer sets) filters are cut from the same stock of optical plastic. The only difference is the frames that are snapped around the below the lens filters. I also read that the last sets of Kodak filters, PCIII and Polymax, were made for Kodak in England (perhaps by Harmon or Ilford?).

If you handle your filters carefully and replace the filters in the holder box when you are done with them your below the lens filters will last a long, long time without degradation. If you are more casual in your approach and use dirty, faded, and scratched below the lens filters your results will be sub optimum. With filters in a drawer above the negative, defects have much less effect.

On a factory tour of the Ilford/Harman Mobberley plant you get to see the small pilot coating line, this is used for test coatings but Simon Galley also told us (I was in his group) it was used to coat the Multigrade filters.

One comment I'd make is the below the lens sets tend to last longer, the others are kept between card and the moisture (in the card) can affect the gelatin coatings over time.. I think my oldest (modern) below the lens set is over 30 years old with no issues. I added the word modern as I have two old style sets as well from the second generation Multigrade from the 1950's these use the reverse filtration and emulsion sensitisation, Magenta filters for soft grades, Yellow for hard.

IIan

 

[AgX]

On a factory tour of the Ilford/Harman Mobberley plant you get to see the small pilot coating line, this is used for test coatings but Simon Galley also told us (I was in his group) it was used to coat the Multigrade filters.

That would mean the Multigrade filters to be gelatin ones.

 

[Hilo]

It may matter theoretically, but I have never seen any difference. I use Leitz enlargers (Valoy II, Focomat 1c and 2c) and have both options for all of them, filter trays and filter holders. I also have a Durst L1000 on the wall, same story. Just keep your filters clean and undamaged.

Sometimes I prefer the under the lens filter holder, like with the Focomat 1c. The filter tray of this enlarger operates sideways and to start sliding it needs a small bit of force. Sometimes I see the head move and I am afraid it moves the negative . . . Leitz USA made a beautiful under the lens holder for the black 1c, it works very nicely !

 

[Ian Grant]

That would mean the Multigrade filters to be gelatin ones.

They always have been.

Ian

 

[AgX]

I never used them, but have got a kit a few years ago and stored it. Thus my memory failed.
(Likely I thought Iford to be more modern than Kodak with their gelatin filters.)

 

[ic-racer]

I can tell if I sandwich the filter with the negative or lay it on the paper, but the recommended common locations are fine.