Portriga Rapid

mikez · Mar 19, 2008

I was recently shown prints that were made on Portriga Rapid. It's absolutely one of the most beautiful papers I've ever seen. I did my research and I know it is long gone, but in an old thread here someone mentioned that they may have the formula for the emulsion... Not that I would be able to pull that off. Does anyone know where I could buy any old paper? I know it would be from an individual and not a store.

Heh maybe I'm just a little too excited about MCC111 coming back. Just crush my hopes and tell me there is no chance of Portriga Rapid coming back. I have tried Warm Tone papers from Ilford, Oriental, Kentmere, Bergger, and Forte and all of them have their strengths/good qualities, but none have the tonal scale that I saw in Portriga Rapid. Portriga Rapid is one of those things that makes me wish I was a lot older than I am now.

EDIT: To a mod/admin SORRY this is only my first day posting here, perhaps I should have posted this in the "Product Availability Forum" My mistake! :X

PVia · Mar 19, 2008

Last month I picked up 2 sealed boxes of Portriga Rapid (and Brovira and much more), one each in glossy and semi-matte, through an ad in craigslist. Just keep checking your local craigslist site under "darkroom" or "enlarger" or "agfa"...something will come up eventually, but you have to be diligent about checking every day.

Ian Grant · Mar 19, 2008

It can get confusing as Portriga Rapid was also better known as Record Rapid in Europe, Portriga Speed was the RC version.

The best Record Rapid/Portriga was the pre-90's version with cadmium, which gave far browner / warmer tones. I still have a few sheets left, I'll probably use them up in the next month.

Ian

nze · Mar 19, 2008

Ian
In fact Record rapid and Portriga was quite different. I have both in stock . These both product was sold in France. I think that there is a confusion becuse of , When agfa stop selling Portriga rapid in Europe they keep on selling rcord rapid in Europe but sold wha is consider as ( rename record rapid) portriga rapid in the USA.
I was also confused about this but when you check old catalogue you clearly see the both product. And working with both I just can say that they are different.
Best

Ian Grant · Mar 19, 2008

No Christian I used both Portriga and Record Rapid, but Record Rapid was sold in some markets as Portriga - confusing.

Portriga in Europe was a very different finish to Record Rapid, it's a bit like the Ilford Matt RC papers compared to glossy they look very different papers even though its the same basic emulsion. Portriga Speed was the RC equivalent of Record Rapid.

Ian

ChuckP · Mar 19, 2008

How does Insignia compare with Portriga? Was the only difference that Insignia had a white base and Protriga cream? This would apply to when they were both produced together amd maybe not to earlier Portriga.

Ian Grant · Mar 19, 2008

Chuck, one of the problems is Agfa sold products under different names in North America. Insignia was never on sale in the UK.

However the Multi Contrast Classic, which I guess is Insignia, was much the same as late Record Rapid which it replaced, good but just didn't have the flexibility of the earlier Record Rapid/Portriga papers prior to the removal of the Cadmium.

Unless you used the cadmium versions it's hard to describe why, but they could be over-exposed by anything up 2 stops or more and then processed in warmtone developers, usually quite dilute or with a high bromide leve and give rich red/brown tones.

I tried Portriga & Record Rapid in Agfa 123 which has a very high level of bromide (25g/litre) and the colour and tonality was amazing, very rich red browns, colours you'd not achieve by toning. At the same time I tested the newer cadmium free Record Rapid and the bromide level held back development.

Anyone who has used the older cadmium versions of Forte, Foma, Agfa and Kentmere warm-tone papers will tell you much the same, newer warm-tone papers are very different, still excellent papers but you cant bend them in the processing to achieve the same colour range.

Ian

climbabout · Mar 19, 2008

Portriga

mikez said:
I was recently shown prints that were made on Portriga Rapid. It's absolutely one of the most beautiful papers I've ever seen. I did my research and I know it is long gone, but in an old thread here someone mentioned that they may have the formula for the emulsion... Not that I would be able to pull that off. Does anyone know where I could buy any old paper? I know it would be from an individual and not a store.

Heh maybe I'm just a little too excited about MCC111 coming back. Just crush my hopes and tell me there is no chance of Portriga Rapid coming back. I have tried Warm Tone papers from Ilford, Oriental, Kentmere, Bergger, and Forte and all of them have their strengths/good qualities, but none have the tonal scale that I saw in Portriga Rapid. Portriga Rapid is one of those things that makes me wish I was a lot older than I am now.

Mike - I would venture to guess that there is no chance of Portriga coming back - at least not in the same formulation that it was made in pre-mid 1980's. To my understanding, the formula was changed due to environmental reasons - I believe that cadmium was used in the formula, and later versions of the paper did not have the same tone and scale as the old formula. I was fortunate to have been able to procure a fair amount of the old formula paper which I have frozen and it still prints beautifully. I haven't found a modern equal to it.

All good things eventually come to an end, you need to develop your own look - find a paper with the color and tonal scale you are happy with and then tailor your negatives to get the most out of it. As soon as you get it dialed in, chances are something you are using will be discontinued - that's the nature of the craft we love. It's all about continual adaptation.
Tim

dpurdy · Mar 19, 2008

I remember very well the time in the 80s when Agfa sent out a notice that Portriga was "New and Improved" with more stable finish and consistant contrast. The finish went from being very flexible (very glossy to nearly mat) to the new surface seeming like Naugahide and very ugly and inflexible. The new paper also lost the depth of black and the prints no longer had the glow. A short time after that they came out with the new Insignia as their fine art paper. It was on a surprisingly bright white paper that seemed to glow in the dark, but when it first came out it seemed to me that the emulsion was the same as the old Portriga (though I know that is not possible due to the cadmium), it was definitely better than the new Portriga. I hated the brightend paper and didn't use it but did try it again sometime later and it seemed to have gotten worse. It seemed that it became the same as the new Portriga only on a bright paper.

It was depressing but if not for that I would not have committed to learning platinum printing and getting myself an 8x10.

mikez · Mar 19, 2008

Wow, thanks for the replies guys. I really appreciate the history lessons/stories here. I know I probably won't get to use Portriga Rapid extensively or at all, but I can dream. climbabout it's a shame about getting used to something and then having it discontinued, but from all the reading I've done it seems to be the trend. Again I wish I was born about 40 years earlier than I was.

sanking · Mar 19, 2008

PVia said:
Last month I picked up 2 sealed boxes of Portriga Rapid (and Brovira and much more), one each in glossy and semi-matte, through an ad in craigslist. Just keep checking your local craigslist site under "darkroom" or "enlarger" or "agfa"...something will come up eventually, but you have to be diligent about checking every day.

Portriga Rapid has not been made in over two decades or so. I would think that any existing stock would be quite fogged. I recently obtained several hundred sheets of some stock from the early 1970s and fixed it out for use as the final support for carbon transfer prints. I checked it first and it was basically too fogged for making silver prints.

Sandy King

climbabout · Mar 19, 2008

fogged portriga

sanking said:
Portriga Rapid has not been made in over two decades or so. I would think that any existing stock would be quite fogged. I recently obtained several hundred sheets of some stock from the early 1970s and fixed it out for use as the final support for carbon transfer prints. I checked it first and it was basically too fogged for making silver prints.

Sandy King

Sandy - mine was frozen when I bought it and I have kept it frozen for the past 20 years since I have owned it. Steve Sherman and I bought this batch together and split it. I just took a pack out of the freezer last week and made some contacts and I detect no fog. I suppose it's all in how it was stored over the years.
Regards,
Tim

Ian Grant · Mar 19, 2008

My Record Rapid (Portriga) was fine when I tested it last year, I have both versions but most is the newer cadmium free paper. All my papers are stored in my darkroom which is cool and stays at a constant temperature. I went through all my old paper last year, testing contrast & for fogging. The paper which faired worst was Sterling - all fogged, all the Agfa, Ilford & Kodak papers were fine, that includes 60's Bromesko & Kodak Bromide and very early 70's Ilfobrom.

Ian

dpurdy · Mar 19, 2008

I remember also that when I was complaining to an old photographer back in the 80s that Portriga had been ruined, he scoffed and said Portriga was ruined back in the 70s when they pulled all the silver out of it.
The demise of paper seems to have been a frustration to photogrpahers since the beginning. Edward Weston was complaining how all the paper was becoming bromide paper. He said his friend Ansel Adams seemed to be able to get good prints from the bromide stuff but he couldn't.

sanking · Mar 19, 2008

dpurdy said:
I remember also that when I was complaining to an old photographer back in the 80s that Portriga had been ruined, he scoffed and said Portriga was ruined back in the 70s when they pulled all the silver out of it.

Yes, I know a well-known photographer who switched to pt/pd printing after the change of Portriga Rapid in the 70s.

Sandy King

nze · Mar 19, 2008

Depending on the stock I get a little or well fogged portriag paper. At last they all work well with lith process and show no marks of fogging after a lith developer treatment.

For the quality of paper I find modern paper quite better but old pape have lot more interesting surface.

Best

Mark Layne · Mar 19, 2008

ChuckP said:
How does Insignia compare with Portriga? Was the only difference that Insignia had a white base and Protriga cream? This would apply to when they were both produced together amd maybe not to earlier Portriga.

Insignia and Record Rapid were the same emulsion if not the same paper. Portriga was a different emulsion
Mark

AgX · Mar 20, 2008

Cadmium?

Cadmium (CdCl) had been used only as doping agent in halide precipitation. If there was a relation to the change of image tone after stopping of its usage, it was an indirect one.

Thomas Bertilsson · Mar 20, 2008

The Portriga Rapid can be used, very successfully, for lith printing, obtaining beautiful colors. If you want to use it to print regular standard silver prints, APUG member RLibersky has enlightened us with the Defender 58-D formula. It contains chlorohydroquinone, and has so far given me fog free prints with paper that fogs in developers such as Ansco-130 and Amidol.
I intend to use what's left of my stock to do lith printing.
- Thomas

Confusion Circle · Mar 21, 2008

mikez said:
Heh maybe I'm just a little too excited about MCC111 coming back.

!?!??! Is MCC111 the AGFA FB paper with the photo of the boxer dude on the box??? If it is, I am going to the nearest mountaintop to scream with joy! Very good news indeed, as I have 3 boxes left. Are they going to produce both glossy and matte versions? Is it out yet?

Shelly Grimson · Mar 21, 2008

Downtown Camera in Toronto has a sizeable quantity of Agfa Fibre based Mcc 111 left. If you want it call them and get the info...

Portriga Rapid

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