Portra gone bad???

Joel_L · Jun 22, 2018

I took my RZ67 out and did some shooting. I got a fresh batch of C-41 chemistry and mixed some up. I should have suspected something when mixing the blix and it fizzed. Not thinking about it, I processed a roll. Of course it was a fail, totally clear film ( right color base ) with no edge markings. Dumped it and mixed a fresh batch. I grabbed some old ( 2002 ) Portra 400VC that I had. Always been refrigerated. I processed that roll, and while there were images the film looked fogged. It was even across the whole roll. Colors are off and very grainy. I then decided to try a roll of 35mm. Had a roll of Portra 160NC. It processed just fine using the same chemicals . So I tried another roll of the Portra 400VC 120 film. This time I tried a different back just in case. Got the exact same result, muddy grainy, fogged look. Has anyone had Portra go bad? I know it's old but was always well stored. I really don't think it's anything with the RZ or Backs, last week I shot a roll of Velvia and it was fine. ( I've been getting to know the new AE prism I put on it ).

The picture of the negative actually looks much darker visually.

Last pic is the Velvia just to show that I don't think there is a camera issue.

Any thoughts? Bad Portra?

Shoom · Jun 22, 2018

I'm not so sure if the fizzing blix is a sign of expiration, at least for powder-based kits. Those blix's always seem to fizz for me when I mix them and I've never gotten totally blank rolls.
As for the fog, I think that C-41 films tend to age pretty poorly from what I've tried, though that might have been due to storage conditions.

btaylor · Jun 22, 2018

I had a similar experience some years ago with outdated and also probably badly stored portra commercially processed, grainy, fogged.

Joel_L · Jun 22, 2018

It is a liquid kit. The second batch I mixed did not fizz, the first mix fizzed a lot, half way up the beaker. I'm going with a mixing error on the first roll, though I've never done that before.

Shoom said:
I'm not so sure if the fizzing blix is a sign of expiration, at least for powder-based kits. Those blix's always seem to fizz for me when I mix them and I've never gotten totally blank rolls.
As for the fog, I think that C-41 films tend to age pretty poorly from what I've tried, though that might have been due to storage conditions.

WilmarcoImaging · Jun 23, 2018

Blank film with no edge markings suggests fixer was the first chemical used in processing.

The photo of negatives in the scanner holder look generally OK, a little thin maybe.

The second image looks underexposed.

Agree that poorly stored and expired C-41 film can deliver less than good results.

Joel_L · Jun 23, 2018

The film I'm using was properly stored. The image scan is from the roll in the film holder and is how the whole roll is.. For some reason the picture makes the negative look much better than it really is. They are just muddy and flat.

pentaxuser · Jun 23, 2018

WilmarcoImaging said:
Blank film with no edge markings suggests fixer was the first chemical used in processing..

That is my understanding as well. Can there be any other explanation?

pentaxuser

MattKing · Jun 23, 2018

The negatives look under-exposed to me.

Joel_L · Jun 23, 2018

That was my initial thought, but the between frame areas and boarders look fogged, exposed,..... The shot in the frame holder makes them look much better than they are. Here is a new shot showing the RZ negative and a 35mm roll I took just to process in the same batch of chemical.

I found another roll of 120 color negative that's not the Portra hiding in my fridge. I think I'll just go shot it and see.

MattKing said:
The negatives look under-exposed to me.

WilmarcoImaging · Jun 23, 2018

Do you have any examples of C-41 film properly exposed and developed with the RZ? Do you think there could be a camera related issue? You mentioned you just put an AE prism on the camera. Have you compared the AE prism reading to a known good light meter reading? All variables are still in play until you rule some out.

mshchem · Jun 23, 2018

Based on the Velvia sure looks like you know how to determine exposures! The fizzing sounds very odd, never seen that with C-41. I have used plenty of old black and white, I've not shot color that old. I have refrigerated sheets of TMY-1, went expired in 2001, still looks great
For me the only way I can judge color negative film is to make regular contact prints. I have a helluva time scanning color negative film.
Best Mike

Joel_L · Jun 24, 2018

I just processed a roll of one 120 that was my last Optima 100 . It turned out fine. I also only have one roll of the Portra left, and I will just pitch it.

I think the roll of totally clear film was because I accidentally swapped the "B" bottles of blix and developer while mixing. It happens.

The rest was what I'm just calling bad Portra. All seems well with the camera and process ( process at least when I mix right )

Sirius Glass · Jun 24, 2018

Joel_L said:
I just processed a roll of one 120 that was my last Optima 100 . It turned out fine. I also only have one roll of the Portra left, and I will just pitch it.

I think the roll of totally clear film was because I accidentally swapped the "B" bottles of blix and developer while mixing. It happens.

The rest was what I'm just calling bad Portra. All seems well with the camera and process ( process at least when I mix right )

Why pitch to roll when the problem was found not to involve the roll?

Joel_L · Jun 24, 2018

Now that the negatives are dry, I can show the different.

First pic, good negative Optima vs muddy Portra. Second pic, same flowers as in original post. Dust is an on going problem for me.

Anyway, I think I'm happy knowing everything is working correctly.

Joel_L · Jun 24, 2018

The problem was the Portra is bad.

Sirius Glass said:
Why pitch to roll when the problem was found not to involve the roll?

Joel_L · Jun 24, 2018

These were my first attempt with color negative film ( I usually shoot B&W and E-6 ) on the new AE prism. The Velvia was with this new AE finder and other B&W rolls were also fine. So in the end there were two issues, First roll ( was Optima 100 ) got my bad mixing. The rest was the Portra. Not sure why it is bad. Even though old, it was stored well ( refrigerated ). In the end, things are sorted out and I can move on knowing the AE finder and camera are working properly.

WilmarcoImaging said:
Do you have any examples of C-41 film properly exposed and developed with the RZ? Do you think there could be a camera related issue? You mentioned you just put an AE prism on the camera. Have you compared the AE prism reading to a known good light meter reading? All variables are still in play until you rule some out.

Agulliver · Jun 25, 2018

I do not know what might have gone wrong with your first batch of chemicals....but....."I grabbed some old portra (2002)"....there is likely your problem.

You insist it was stored "correctly" but really film is only able to be stored correctly by refrigerating until it's expiry date...or a couple of years for film that has no expiry date. Especially colour film....anything appreciably longer and you need to freeze the film. In 16 years a C41 film is going to lose a stop and likely exhibit some colour shift even when refrigerated.

Anecdotal experience....I also find that Fuji C41 film lasts better in the fridge and freezer than Kodak. I had some Portra from 1999 which I had frozen and shot last year, yielding muddy images (120 format). I've had similar with Gold and VR...but never with Reala or Superia.

Joel_L · Jun 25, 2018

This Portra is the only film that has been an issue. I have some Fuji and Kodak E-6 film about as old that have been fine. It does not surprise me at all the different films will behave differently. I think the obvious thing is shoot more so I don't have old film.

Portra gone bad???

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