Polaroid 20x24 Lives on...

[david b]

Somehow, this process has survived and has a new owner

Read more here...

 

[David A. Goldfarb]

That's great news. Tracy Storer mentioned that there was something in the works a while back. I was hoping it might survive in a way that would make it possible to continue producing 8x10" Polaroid, but I guess this isn't how it's going to happen, if it happens.

 

[Nicholas Lindan]

Somehow, this process has survived and has a new owner

Read more here...

WSJ Article: "20x24 ... Polaroid ... No conventional camera could make film negatives this large, or match the intense colors"

Well, there are plenty of 20x24's around. And of all of them, the Polaroid is the least conventional. And all of them, except the Polaroid, make negatives. So I am not sure where the first part of that comes from.

As far as matching the colors -- of the 202x24 Polaroids I have seen in real life, faded Kodacolor snapshots, c 1966, come the closest to matching the intensity.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Interesting comment at the end of the article: "Only the Polaroid process can guarantee that the picture you see is identical to the subject that stood before the camera. The 20x24, a lovely, archaic piece of technology, preserves the one form of photography you can trust". I think the writer must never have watched a 20x24 Polaroid being made, because like some other Polaroid materials, they can be manipulated during processing. While it is more likely that WYSIWIG with a 20x24 Polaroid, just because of the issues involved in using it, it is no more "honest" than any other photographic medium.

 

[Ian Grant]

Interesting that there's no mention of the film, just "to produce the chemicals and related products essential for making Polaroid images". So does it actually use a film manufactured by Polaroid, or is it a process using a coated material from another source. They'd need a coating plant to make the instant film.

Maybe Ron, (PE), could comment.

Ian

 

[arealitystudios]

This makes me beyond happy. I had the pleasure of using the 20x24 polaroid once and it was one of the best photographic experiences of my life. I'd like one day to do it again, this time as a photographer with a bit more experience using such a monster of a camera.

 

[GGardner]

Anyone care to estimate how many 20x24 polaroid exposures are made per year? Seems amazing that it is feasible to revive 20x24, but not smaller formats.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The 20x24 material was essentially a big cut out of a master roll intended for smaller cameras. Therefore the product is no easier or harder to make, just bigger. (and harder to handle and process)

Therefore, it comes down to economics. How much is is going to cost to run these huge coating machines and get the chemistry made that will support the consumer base that is out there.

PE

 

[roodpe]

I heard that the Polaroid equipment is being dismantled for shipment to Japan. Does anyone know if the Fuji sale went through?

Pete

 

[Alex Hawley]

That's great news. Tracy Storer mentioned that there was something in the works a while back. I was hoping it might survive in a way that would make it possible to continue producing 8x10" Polaroid, but I guess this isn't how it's going to happen, if it happens.

Seems a shame that 8x10 Polaroid couldn't follow on. But I suppose by the time the extra cutting and packaging is done, it must not work out. Maybe there's still hope even for the 8x10.

 

[Photo Engineer]

I heard that the Polaroid equipment is being dismantled for shipment to Japan. Does anyone know if the Fuji sale went through?

Pete

Do you have a reference for this?

I have heard nothing to this effect.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

Seems a shame that 8x10 Polaroid couldn't follow on. But I suppose by the time the extra cutting and packaging is done, it must not work out. Maybe there's still hope even for the 8x10.

Alex, that's another strange point. If the two base materials are the same then potential sales of 10x8 Polaroid would be substantially larger than 20x24, probably by a factor in the high 100's. However distribution & marketing would be a problem.

Ian

 

[AgX]

Well, there is that Wall Street Journal article, that hint of member roodpe, and information passed by people involved in the new venture...

Let's just wait and see what of that different information will come true.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The venture regarding 20x24 is indeed mentioned, but a sale of equipment to Fuji is new to me. I have heard nothing in the industry. Remember, there was the effort on the part of Ilford. IDK the exact status of that, but you can't sell the same equipment or rights to 2 companies at the same time.

Besides, Fuji already has their own coating and packaging equipment.

PE

 

[Jeremy]

Remember, there was the effort on the part of Ilford. IDK the exact status of that, but you can't sell the same equipment or rights to 2 companies at the same time.

Simon Galley posted here to Apug a month or 2 ago that Ilford decided it wasn't economically feasible to purchase the polaroid line.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Simon Galley posted here to Apug a month or 2 ago that Ilford decided it wasn't economically feasible to purchase the polaroid line.

Thanks. I thought I had read that. Well, if Ilford found it unprofitable, then what evendence is there for Fuji doing what Ilford decided against, especially when Fuji has most of the equipment already.

I doubt if there is such an effort on the part of Fuji.

As for reviving the 20x24, it is possible but will take a lot of capital.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

Possibly the only thing Fuji might want is the packaging & tooling to fit their own films into some Polaroid single sheet packaging. They already make Innstant Colour & B&W films.

It's worth remembering that over the years there has been some inter trading between Ilford & Fuji, Ilford repackaged Fuji Film as Ilfochrome (E6) and Ilford manufactured some B&W film for Fuji.

Then Fuji also have ties with Foma, they have new a cutting and packaging facility. This can only be healthy as it means factories operate more efficiently.

So will the 20x24 material remain the same, or could the fim/paper actually be made by Fuji ?

Ian

 

[Marco B]

Alex, that's another strange point. If the two base materials are the same then potential sales of 10x8 Polaroid would be substantially larger than 20x24, probably by a factor in the high 100's. However distribution & marketing would be a problem.

Ian

Reading the article, I get the distinct feeling they are not all after supplying the "entire" former Polaroid market, but just keep a very small but interesting art form alive.

If that is true, they will not be after high sales, but quality moments with the few remaining camera's in operation (the 5 mentioned).

They will never need something like an expensive "distribution channel", because the photographic artists having the privilege of using the camera and 20x24 will be in direct contact with the company supplying those few precious Polaroids needed for their art project.

I don't know if it is even possible, but maybe coating and creating these Polaroids might even be a manual process, not even requiring all those expensive "coating lines" and machinery, if just a few dozen of them have to be produced per year?

 

[roodpe]

It was scuttlebutt from a store in NYC that still has a large film business. They did a large business in Polaroid and the manager said he was told the equipment was being dismantled for shipment.

Even if the story were true, it doesn't mean that a Japanese company would be making Polariod films. I didn't mean to raise any false hopes. Just thought someone might know what is going on.

Pete

Do you have a reference for this?

I have heard nothing to this effect.

PE

 

[Ian Grant]

That would make sense if Fuji were buying just the packaging machinery, or even just parts of it. No-one else can afford to make a Polaroid type film, but Fuji film could possibly be shoe horned into to Polaroid packaging, in japan.

Well maybe in the US too, couldn't Fuji film be used in the 20x24 too perhaps ?

Ian

 

[Photo Engineer]

It was scuttlebutt from a store in NYC that still has a large film business. They did a large business in Polaroid and the manager said he was told the equipment was being dismantled for shipment.

Even if the story were true, it doesn't mean that a Japanese company would be making Polariod films. I didn't mean to raise any false hopes. Just thought someone might know what is going on.

Pete

I have heard so much scuttlebutt from everywhere that I am sceptical now. Sorry. IDK what is true, but I can say that I have heard nothing in the trade about this. I have a regular Photo Engineers lunch at the end of August at George Eastman House. I'll try to find out something there.

PE

 

[amuderick]

Maybe I'm new-fashioned but I don't understand why any kind of distribution channel is needed for 8x10 Polaroid materials. Mail order direct from the factory for worldwide delivery.

 

[AgX]

Again, this whole discussion leads to nothing.

Well, there were those sales of polaroid manufacturing equipment. Some of it was sold as the the auction house stated in their records. There was that statement of IlfordPhoto that they would be in discussion with Polaroid, which soon after was said to have led to nothing. Furthermore there are those two big competitors themselves busy with diffusion processes who did not show any reaction so far. There is some information inside the industry by some enthusiasts forming a new venture. And there is that WSJ article, the most detailed information so far. Seemingly that Mr. Stern became some kind of Jack in the box.

Why not just wait until that company referred to by the WJS or any party of the industry releases something substantial themselves?

 

[Ian Grant]

It is worth reading the BJP article about Polaroid.

This article does give far more details, indicating that third parties are still in discussions with Polaroid on the future of other materials. We can all make a well educated guess that this has to include Fuji.

Ian

 

[AgX]

Thank you Ian for referring to that article, which was unknown to me. Some of the information is contrary to what I have heard. And of course that all means that we don't know anything substantial yet