Point Light Source for the Focomat Ic

Hilo · May 18, 2018

Recently I found a Point Light Source for the Focomat Ic. This would be the opposite of the Cold Light. High contrast, lots of retouch . . . I will soon try it out.

I don't know much about it, except it should be used with an open lens. I can tell this is correct when projecting onto the easel, the illumination is even when open and not when closing the lens.

Anyone here with experience in using this? Or anyone who could tell me something about its origin?

Thanks !

Michael

Paul Howell · May 18, 2018

Not a Focomat, but I rebuilt an old Federal 6X9 double condenser as a point source. Most point sources were used for high contrast copy work like microfilm. I use mine to print negatives I took in the 60s to replicate the gritty look of the time. Grain is very noticeable, so much that I stopped using it for TriX or GAF 500, just too much. It works well with Plus X, or PF4, and very sharp, even with the lens wide open. On my list is bring it out and use with modern Tmax 100. There have folks here on APUG who used point source for all enlargements. In of AA books there is a picture of a point source for his Bessler 4X5, someone told me he used point source for 35mm.

chip j · May 18, 2018

If I use the original-type bulb of my Durst M35 Micromat, I have a modified point-light--great tonality w/ subtle gradations of tone, "muscular" picture, much more "natural" than usual enlarging bulb. AND I can use ALL f-stops. My Durst was designed in 1946 around the slide projector bulbs of the day.

larfe · May 18, 2018

Are you sure this is the real deal? I ask because with a point source one needs to have the ability to move the bulb at least up and down + ideally side to side and front to back...

Paul Howell · May 18, 2018

I assume that as it specific to the Focomate that it is set the right height. The reason I converted a very old Federal is that the light bulb can be raised and lowered.

Hilo · May 19, 2018

Thanks for your replies ! Chip, your Micromat looks like from outer space, beautiful machine !!

The lamp head system of any Focomat 1c allows for going up and down about 3 - 4 centimeters and you can adjust the bulb in any direction, before fixing with three dedicated curled screws. Normally, with the standard opal bulb you need to bring it up. The first thing I noticed this one I had bring down. But then I got very close to even illumination.

As far as I understand this was designed by someone in France and made by Leitz Germany, around 1970. That would make sense as at that time Leitz was still making the black Focomats. I was told this special head was also made by Leitz in Canada and came with the Elcan name. In 1978 I used one like the one I found now, and about 10 years ago I found another one that I could not get to work. So, they're around but I think the production was not in large numbers.

AgX · May 19, 2018

larfe said:
Are you sure this is the real deal? I ask because with a point source one needs to have the ability to move the bulb at least up and down + ideally side to side and front to back...

Moreover the condenser is very simple. Even projectors use two aspheric elements.

~andi · May 19, 2018

Very nice! I assume it works in conjunction with the original Ic condenser in place, right?

Hilo · May 19, 2018

~andi said:
Very nice! I assume it works in conjunction with the original Ic condenser in place, right?

Sofar, while I am just projecting, it seems to work fine.Yes, I left the 1c condenser in . . .

I also have this special, small condenser, remember we talked about it? You have one too. This condenser fits on top of the 1c condenser. I still wonder if that's an accidental fit or not . . . Anyway, I will just install it to see what happens.

Hilo · May 19, 2018

AgX said:
Moreover the condenser is very simple. Even projectors use two aspheric elements.

Leitz apparently did not think it was too simple

Paul Howell · May 19, 2018

Hilo said:
Sofar, while I am just projecting, it seems to work fine.Yes, I left the 1c condenser in . . .

I also have this special, small condenser, remember we talked about it? You have one too. This condenser fits on top of the 1c condenser. I still wonder if that's an accidental fit or not . . . Anyway, I will just install it to see what happens.

Point source needs a double condenser for sharpness. What are you planning to do with your point source?

Hilo · May 19, 2018

Paul, first I want to see what it does. I used a similar point light in 1978 and still have those prints. Very defined and sharp grain, strong images. Ever since I have looked to find this point light again and now I have. What I am hoping is that from using it I will get closer to understand what I can use it for. I do a lot of 50X60cm fiber prints (20X24) and I am very curious what happens at this size.

I attach pictures of this special condenser, probably for the Focomat 1c. You see it on the right in the pictures it comes with a diffusing glass. Which I doubt will be good to use, but who knows. On the left in the images you see the regular condenser for the Focomat 1c, together with it's spring and bayonet to lock into place.

How do you know point light sources need a double condenser?

Paul Howell · May 19, 2018

A Kodak text from the 60s, How Enlarger's Work, a chapter on Point Source. Both point source and semi defuse or condensers need double condensers for sharpest results. At the time Kodak seemed to pushing cold light, but did acknowledge that condensers were sharper with point source being the sharpest. Maybe Lietz took a different path? The diffusing glass is confusing, maybe if you want a little softer image.

Hilo · May 19, 2018

Paul, thanks !

I am sure I will find out how this lamp head works well, and not. Leitz made single condenser enlargers (Focomat 1c, Valoy II) and double condenser enlargers (Focomat 2c) and all these share the same dimensions for the lamp heads. I have these enlargers and will certainly try them out with this point light.

~andi · May 19, 2018

So those two condensers would together form a double condenser (the one on the point-light + the original one).

Hilo said:
Sofar, while I am just projecting, it seems to work fine.Yes, I left the 1c condenser in . . .

I also have this special, small condenser, remember we talked about it? You have one too. This condenser fits on top of the 1c condenser. I still wonder if that's an accidental fit or not . . . Anyway, I will just install it to see what happens.

Right, the magic part, I almost forgot about that. Maybe it works with the point-light too?

Interesting experiments ahead, i guess...
Cheers
Andi

Hilo · May 19, 2018

~andi said:
So those two condensers would together form a double condenser (the one on the point-light + the original one).

I don't think that's what Paul meant. He is talking about enlargers with double condensers, like the IIc . . .

Andi, did you ever print with that small condenser installed into the Ic condenser? I always forget to do that . . .

chip j · May 19, 2018

I have the small condenser & diffusing disc--they came installed on an ANCIENT Valoy I bought! That Valoy won't work well w/o BOTH condensers.

Ron789 · May 19, 2018

This setup does provide a double condensor: the bottom half is the original condensor in the 1c, the top half is the condensor attached to the point light source. Together, that makes a double condensor.

Focomatter · May 19, 2018

Is this light source (post 1) supposed be used with the color or non-color version of the Ic? I gather only the later grey non-color Ic version (which I happen to have, has a blank over the opening where the filter holder slides in) has the elongated lamp housing among the non-color Ic variants. This elongation would likely change the way the effective two condenser lens (light source condenser plus standard condenser) functions - the distance would be greater due to the space needed for the filter holder.

The additional condenser and diffuser (post 12) - by any chance is this meant for using with an alternate lens such as a 28mm?

Hilo · May 20, 2018

chip j said:
I have the small condenser & diffusing disc--they came installed on an ANCIENT Valoy I bought! That Valoy won't work well w/o BOTH condensers.

Chip, thanks for this - it could be the key to understand the origin of this small condenser & diffusing disc. Do I understand you correctly: In that older Valoy you have 1) the original Valoy condenser and 2) the small condenser on top of that?

And this setup works best?

Hilo · May 20, 2018

Ron789 said:
This setup does provide a double condensor: the bottom half is the original condensor in the 1c, the top half is the condensor attached to the point light source. Together, that makes a double condensor.

Ah, I guess that is what Andi meant . . .

Hilo · May 20, 2018

Focomatter said:
Is this light source (post 1) supposed be used with the color or non-color version of the Ic? I gather only the later grey non-color Ic version (which I happen to have, has a blank over the opening where the filter holder slides in) has the elongated lamp housing among the non-color Ic variants. This elongation would likely change the way the effective two condenser lens (light source condenser plus standard condenser) functions - the distance would be greater due to the space needed for the filter holder.

The additional condenser and diffuser (post 12) - by any chance is this meant for using with an alternate lens such as a 28mm?

Right now I installed this point light source on a black Focomat 1c Color with the filter drawer. Sofar I have only projected the image and noticed I had to bring the point light source's bulb down to get even illumination. The filter tray I left sitting there and it did not seem to bother the light path. I will need a couple of weeks to understand everything, by trying different Focomats (I also have the 1c round head without the filter tray) and the Valoy II. Only printing will give the right answers.

I attach a picture of the set -up now, the top half is the point light source . . .

~andi · May 20, 2018

Ah i see about the double condenser. It would be interesting to see if it works on the IIc (and how, with without the additional condnenser on the point source).

Yes I meant what Ron meant, the whole thing becomes a double-condneser system.

Does the lamp/condenser assembly move up and down like a regular lamp? This would take care of focal-point issues Focomatter mentioned and that might arise with the different type heads (egghead, roundhead).

Machiel, I'm not sure I printed with the little condenser but if I had, i would have told you about it. I didn't do elaborate tests, that's for sure. I remember putting it in a dry run and the light-circle looked a bit different and I had to adjust the lamp for that. after that, i saw no difference. I just can't remember more of it. I Remember using the diffusion disc though in the hope to loose a little light for small prints. That brought me 1/4 stop or so - I didn't see a difference in the image (7x5s).

Cheers
Andi

chip j · May 20, 2018

Hilo said:
Chip, thanks for this - it could be the key to understand the origin of this small condenser & diffusing disc. Do I understand you correctly: In that older Valoy you have 1) the original Valoy condenser and 2) the small condenser on top of that?

And this setup works best?

Yes

Hilo · May 21, 2018

Thanks Chip,

Is it possible to take a picture of the condensers in your Valoy? I don't know this older Valoy, but I imagine the condenser is (almost) the same as the one of the Focomat 1c.

If this is not easy, forget it . . .

Michael

chip j · May 21, 2018

I'll see if I can get someone to take pics. But the bottom condenser is "pointier" than that of a 1c.

Point Light Source for the Focomat Ic

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