point-and-shoot with a normal prime?

abruzzi · Mar 5, 2019

I've been looking at (but not buying) online a lot of the different point-and-shoot cameras from the 80s and 90s*. There are a few that stand out that have retained their fame/popularity and internet knowledge, including some that been driven into crazy pricing, but most have disappeared into obscurity with little info available online.

One thing that I wonder is if you only look at cameras with prime lenses, all I'm seeing are 35mm, 28mm, and sometimes 24mm primes. I'm not seeing any with 45mm-60mm lenses, unless I look at the proto-p&s cameras like some of the various Japanese fixed lens rangefinders. There are a few cameras out there claim to have dual lenses--35mm and a 70mm--but I can't tell if that actually works, or if it is some trickery of adding a lens behind the lens to change the effective focal length. I'd prefer 50mm anyway.

So did anyone make a p&s (preferably auto focus, over fixed or zone focus) that has a normal lens?

* just for clarity, I am not talking about any camera you can point then shoot, but rather cameras that are class of "point and shoots" that are limited to automated compact self contained cameras. I know that with a little planning, you can point and shoot your 8x10 monorail view camera or Nikon F6, but I'm not interested.

AgX · Mar 5, 2019

Depends what you call proto p&s. I got many cameras with 40mm. For instance the Optima Sensor Electronic, which is a late proto...
We should not overlook that the common 50mm is already on the long side, with that that rule-of-diameter in mind...

And the Canon AF35ML has even a 1.9 40mm lens.

abruzzi · Mar 5, 2019

I'm more interested in an actual point and shoot, meaning it has full automation of focus and exposure. Overrides for aperture or shutter priority are welcome, but I already have a Olympus XA (35mm lens) and a Canonet QL17 (40mm lens), but I don't really consider those p&s cameras because they need to be focused and one half the aperture needs to be set. (aperture on the XA and shutter on the Canonet.)

My question is as much intellectual curiosity as desire to purchase (though I much prefer a 50mm over a 35mm). For close to 20 years almost every SLR manufactured in Japan was sold with a bundled 50mm lens. Why do none of the P&S cameras have one? Why are they all wides? I get that at some point zooms took over as the kit lens on SLRs and also on P&S cameras, which I understand, but it seems like a bit of a gap that before that on the cameras with primes, they are all wide. Nikon made the 28TI and 35TI, but not a 50TI. They also made a L35AF, Pentax made a PC35AF, both with 35mm lenses. the Ricoh GR1 has a 28mm, the Contax T2 has a 38mm, T3 has a 35mm, Yashica T2, T3 and T4 have a 35mm. Fuji Klasse has a 38mm and Klasse W has a 28mm.

Chan Tran · Mar 5, 2019

These cameras do not have very accurate framing and thus the 35mm is better than a 50mm in my opinion.

Besk · Mar 5, 2019

Leica Minilux or CM have a 40mm lens. About the longest I am aware of. Another option is a P&S with a zoom lens.

RalphLambrecht · Mar 5, 2019

abruzzi said:
I've been looking at (but not buying) online a lot of the different point-and-shoot cameras from the 80s and 90s*. There are a few that stand out that have retained their fame/popularity and internet knowledge, including some that been driven into crazy pricing, but most have disappeared into obscurity with little info available online.

One thing that I wonder is if you only look at cameras with prime lenses, all I'm seeing are 35mm, 28mm, and sometimes 24mm primes. I'm not seeing any with 45mm-60mm lenses, unless I look at the proto-p&s cameras like some of the various Japanese fixed lens rangefinders. There are a few cameras out there claim to have dual lenses--35mm and a 70mm--but I can't tell if that actually works, or if it is some trickery of adding a lens behind the lens to change the effective focal length. I'd prefer 50mm anyway.

So did anyone make a p&s (preferably auto focus, over fixed or zone focus) that has a normal lens?

* just for clarity, I am not talking about any camera you can point then shoot, but rather cameras that are class of "point and shoots" that are limited to automated compact self contained cameras. I know that with a little planning, you can point and shoot your 8x10 monorail view camera or Nikon F6, but I'm not interested.

I believe the Rollei35 had a 35mm lens which I consider to be 'normal'.

jim10219 · Mar 5, 2019

The wider the lens, the wider the depth of field. That's probably why most come with a wide lens, if they don't have autofocus.

Kodachromeguy · Mar 5, 2019

RalphLambrecht said:
I believe the Rollei35 had a 35mm lens which I consider to be 'normal'.

A few mm more: Rollei 35 cameras had 40mm Xenar, Tessar, or Sonnar lenses. And one model had a 40 Triotar.

AgX · Mar 6, 2019

abruzzi said:
I'm more interested in an actual point and shoot, meaning it has full automation of focus and exposure.

The term point&shoot camera is not known over here, thus I did not know how strict the term is taken.

Wes/HikePics · Apr 1, 2019

I have a Canon AF35ML that was mentioned above. It's a little old, slow sometimes and sounds loud but does a great job. It also has a 48mm threaded lens for filters and the meter is set into the lens. Maybe one of the many screw-on telephoto lenses would work.

John Koehrer · Apr 2, 2019

I imagine the 50 wasn't used for strictly size between lens & autofocus mechanisms. Even an LTM Leica needs a collapsible lens to actually fit a pocket.

shuttergrinch · Apr 2, 2019

Nikon One Touch / L Series
https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/nikon-one-touch-l35af-a-cult-classic.164466/

Ko.Fe. · Apr 3, 2019

I have seen several "I want 50 in P&S" threads over years and different forums. But I can't remember cameras or single camera to fulfill this demand.

I think it is something which was not making sense back then. With real P&S in use. I did not need another camera with 50mm, back then.
Those cameras were supposed to be simple to focus (wider than 50) or universal (slow zooms).

macfred · Apr 3, 2019

With a good reputation from the Konica "Off-Road" series:
Konica Genba Kantoku DD (40mm-60mm switchable dual lens) and from the same series a 28-56mm zoom lens model.
http://camera-wiki.org/wiki/Konica_Genba_Kantoku_DD
https://www.35mmc.com/05/08/2016/konica-genba-kantoku-28wb/

My wife got one with the 35mm lens - great camera for outdoor activites.

Wes/HikePics · Apr 5, 2019

I just discovered the Chinon Auto GX which has a 45mm F3.5 lens. I wouldn't mind one of those myself.

Also, as macfred mentioned, switchable dual-lens cameras. There were several models and makes of these "twins" made back in the day. I have a Minolta AF-Tele that has a 38mm F2.8 and 60mm F4.3 with auto DX from 25-1600.

abruzzi · Apr 5, 2019

I think you have that backwards—it’s a 35mm f4.5, at least in the pictures I just found.

trendland · Apr 5, 2019

abruzzi said:
I've been looking at (but not buying) online a lot of the different point-and-shoot cameras from the 80s and 90s*. There are a few that stand out that have retained their fame/popularity and internet knowledge, including some that been driven into crazy pricing, but most have disappeared into obscurity with little info available online.

One thing that I wonder is if you only look at cameras with prime lenses, all I'm seeing are 35mm, 28mm, and sometimes 24mm primes. I'm not seeing any with 45mm-60mm lenses, unless I look at the proto-p&s cameras like some of the various Japanese fixed lens rangefinders. There are a few cameras out there claim to have dual lenses--35mm and a 70mm--but I can't tell if that actually works, or if it is some trickery of adding a lens behind the lens to change the effective focal length. I'd prefer 50mm anyway.

So did anyone make a p&s (preferably auto focus, over fixed or zone focus) that has a normal lens?

* just for clarity, I am not talking about any camera you can point then shoot, but rather cameras that are class of "point and shoots" that are limited to automated compact self contained cameras. I know that with a little planning, you can point and shoot your 8x10 monorail view camera or Nikon F6, but I'm not interested.

Would this camera find a place in your "point and shot" category? :

because it has a good lens and therefore one of best quality in this "easy class" !

with regards

Paul Howell · Apr 5, 2019

In the same cat the Rollei is the Petri Color and Color E, not a rangfineder, the Color has a readout in the finder the distance the lens is set at. Lens is a 40mm 2.8. Only thing I dont like about mine is that the back of the camera has be opened to change the battery.

Wes/HikePics · Apr 5, 2019

abruzzi said:
I think you have that backwards—it’s a 35mm f4.5, at least in the pictures I just found.

Right you are! My dyslexia must be getting worse......

wbl · Jun 13, 2019

The Fuji DL-500 / Discovery Mini Dual / Cardia Travel Mini Dual fits in a pocket and has a dual 28mm f3.5 / 45mm f5.6 lens. I've used one before, and while it's a bit noisy, the focal length versatility makes it a pretty great travel companion. IQ is as expected in a P&S and it nailed exposure when loaded with Provia RDPIII.

ic-racer · Jun 13, 2019

I have a Remington with a 50mm lens like this:
(that is not mine, because, obviously the eyepiece has fallen off and been re-fitted to the wrong side of the viewfinder.)

Kodachromeguy · Jun 13, 2019

If you want a point-and-shoot with 50mm lens, how about one of the Voigtlander Vito cameras from the 1950s and 1960s? The BL version even has a selenium light meter (but mine is not fully trustworthy). The optical quality is excellent.
Black and white examples: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2019/01/further-decay-and-loss-port-gibson.html

Chan Tran · Jun 14, 2019

Kodachromeguy said:
If you want a point-and-shoot with 50mm lens, how about one of the Voigtlander Vito cameras from the 1950s and 1960s? The BL version even has a selenium light meter (but mine is not fully trustworthy). The optical quality is excellent.
Black and white examples: https://worldofdecay.blogspot.com/2019/01/further-decay-and-loss-port-gibson.html

View attachment 225184

It is not a point and shoot. It's fully manual. Besides the OP also want a camera that is smaller.

John51 · Jun 14, 2019

The XA was designed because Yoshihisa Maitani missed a good photo moment getting his camera. iirc, was a fire in a bath house and a large man on the street with just a towel.

As a P&S, it's as good as any imo. As the owners manual says, keep it at f5.6 and the focus at 3 metres. I've taken lots of pics at that setting. With subjects from about 2 metres on, I can't tell much difference, if any, between those and the ones where I used the rangefinder.

jtk · Jun 14, 2019

Konica Hexar AF. Or is that too excellent?

point-and-shoot with a normal prime?

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