Plus-X discontinued...WTF?

mtngael · Feb 19, 2011

Usually when Kodak discontinues a classic film it's all over the 'net. I went to order some 120 Plus-X and found to my chagrin that all retailers have it listed as discontinued by the manufacturer. I remember reading the discussions about the cinematic versions being D/C'ed by nothing about the still stuff. How come it was so off the radar? Kodak doesn't even have it listed on their discontinued items site and still have it listed on their films site. I was quite unhappy to find out as I only have 9 rolls left...none of which I thought to freeze! Just wondering if I somehow missed all the hubbub or if they did it sneakily...

Ian Grant · Feb 19, 2011

There's a long thread about this.

It's the way Kodak work, a film is still available long after it's manufacture has ceased, because while they have stock it isn't discontinued.

See the Kodachrome threads it was last coated a few years, but held in cold store on master rolls before being officially discontinued and processing ceasing.

Ian

Photo Engineer · Feb 19, 2011

Still listed here:

http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/f4018/f4018.pdf

The 120 and 35mm are listed here too as an example:

Dead Link Removed

mtngael · Feb 19, 2011

Weird...I did google and search here to see if there was any old threads on it and came up empty except for the aforementioned reversal stock. Thanks Photo Engineer, I guessed I missed when I'd checked Adorama!

mtngael · Feb 19, 2011

Or, I could suck it up and get around to trying out FP4!

Paul Sorensen · Feb 19, 2011

To the OP, and anyone else who has not heard, Kodak has told folks that this is only Plus-X in 120 being discontinued, not all Plus-X. They have made it clear that 35mm Plus-X is still being made. I do not know that this is true or if they are blowing smoke up our rear ends, but that is what they have been telling folks.

Ron, that is a tech data sheet. Does the fact that I can post this mean that Verichrome Pan is still being made?

I think the reality is that we do not know what the future of our favorite materials is, and we ought to just enjoy them while we have them.

DWThomas · Feb 19, 2011

There was a long thread here recently that suggested it was discontinued in 120 and long roll 35mm. When I just now looked for that thread, it has been expunged as being "underground marketing." At the time, the inputs from various sources seemed varied and inconsistent. I just bought 5 rolls of 120 a week or so back from B&H, but I now don't see it on their site. Adorama still lists it. Dunno, it appears maybe something is afoot, not helped by the big K having had a less then stellar year financially.

2F/2F · Feb 19, 2011

AFAIK 120 is discontinued, and we all know that sheet sizes have been for some time. 35mm is all that remains being manufactured. This means that the only Kodak b/w 120 films being produced (not sold, but produced) are Tri-X 400 (not TXP, the different ISO 320 one, but TX, the same one that is made in 35mm) and T-Max 100 and 400. All that remains for b/w sheet films are TXP and T-Max 100 and 400.

All current Kodak b/w films but TXP are still made in 35mm. I'm not sure what the status of T-Max 3200 is.

They have also eliminated the two styles of 400 Portra and introduced a compromised single style.

Paul Sorensen · Feb 19, 2011

The thread in question got moved to the Doom and Gloom forum. I just went there to look it up and found that it is now completely deleted. The explanation says "underground marketing." Not sure why offending posts were not just deleted rather than the thread, but that is what it says.

Ian Grant · Feb 19, 2011

mtngael said:
Or, I could suck it up and get around to trying out FP4!

Depends where you are.

Kodak films other than C41 consumer colour print films have become almost extinct in many parts of the world.

Kodak are the only manufacturer who don't offer a full range of B&W products and as a result there's no incentive for stores to carry their films, virtual all photo courses recommend FP4 & HP5 and Ilford papers, but that was the case when Kodak still made B&W papers.

Don't get me wrong I didn't use any Ilford films for 20 years I was Agfa biased with Tmax as my back up, then totally Kodak & Tmax, but when I just couldn't get Tmax films I had no option but change.

Now I'll stick with Ilford, at least they have commitment. It's not a fault of Kodak's Film Division rather the blinkered Inkjet approach of the CEO towards Global Marketing, he has Zero understanding of film users and loyalties.

Ian

mtngael · Feb 19, 2011

I guess it's time to move on then and support a pro-film film company...I'll use my last 9 and try to get some more. I was just curious since I hadn't heard any news of it!

Ian Grant · Feb 19, 2011

mtngael said:
I guess it's time to move on then and support a pro-film film company...I'll use my last 9 and try to get some more. I was just curious since I hadn't heard any news of it!

I think it's a wise move,

3 years ago I spent two days trying to buy Tmax films in Santiago, Chile, and then a few hours the next week in Lima, Peru, I turned down the Ilford films, and was surprised how much Foma was available, but I'd not tried it. Those are Capital cities I went to the pro suppliers and rang many others. Kodak had left the market except for the consumer C41 shops/labs.

It's the same here in Turkey, Kodak have left all but the bottom end of thye market.

Ian

PHOTOTONE · Feb 19, 2011

It seems to me, if the major online retailers of film say a product is "discontinued", and you see this from several key vendors in various parts of the USA, and this from vendors that generally carry all the available Kodak films, then it should be a pretty good indication that one of two things is possible. 1. Kodak is out, and has not made more (even if they aren't officially discontinuing it yet), or 2. Kodak has decided to discontinue, but still has some stock left in at least one size.

Photo Engineer · Feb 19, 2011

Guys;

If Kodak has a tech sheet with Discontinued at the top, then you can be sure that that film is gone. However, I remind you that we got just about a 2 year notice from Kodak about kodachrome. At the present time, Kodak has not had a dividend for 1099 purposes since 2008 which is pretty bad for the investors. They are running around trying to figure out which direction to go regarding film production and the cost of Silver which is about $30 US / oz.

I have to assume at this point that PX is still around at dealers, as they list it as in stock. I have to assume that they can still get it as Kodak does not explicitly list it as discontinued. Now, that might mean only that Kodak has 1 or more master rolls of the stuff in storage or it may mean that it is on a regular production schedule.

I can walk into local stores and buy Kodak B&W and color films, Ilford films and papers and Kodak and Ilford process chemistry. I just picked up some fine C41 chemistry at a local shop.

So, while Kodak is down, it is not out. And, remember that these marketing vagaries affect Fuji and Ilford as well. Lets hope for the best.

PE

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 19, 2011

The original post in that thread along with several other threads fit a pattern that we've seen before associated with underground marketing. As a matter of policy, we want to discourage underground marketing on APUG, because we've seen how it has destroyed the character of other forums, so it does not matter if there is worthwhile information in a thread that appears to be part of an underground marketing campaign. Underground marketing simply will not be tolerated on APUG.

2F/2F · Feb 19, 2011

David A. Goldfarb said:
The original post in that thread along with several other threads fit a pattern that we've seen before associated with underground marketing. As a matter of policy, we want to discourage underground marketing on APUG, because we've seen how it has destroyed the character of other forums, so it does not matter if there is worthwhile information in a thread that appears to be part of an underground marketing campaign. Underground marketing simply will not be tolerated on APUG.

David, does this mean that the news posted in that thread about Plus-X's discontinuance in 120 was false, and an attempt to peel people away from Kodak and get them using Ilford? Is Plus-X truly gone in 120, or not?

Ian Grant · Feb 19, 2011

David A. Goldfarb said:
The original post in that thread along with several other threads fit a pattern that we've seen before associated with underground marketing. As a matter of policy, we want to discourage underground marketing on APUG, because we've seen how it has destroyed the character of other forums, so it does not matter if there is worthwhile information in a thread that appears to be part of an underground marketing campaign. Underground marketing simply will not be tolerated on APUG.

Are you saying Kodak's behind this ?

Ian

Ken Nadvornick · Feb 19, 2011

Photo Engineer said:
At the present time, Kodak has not had a dividend for 1099 purposes since 2008 which is pretty bad for the investors.

Sadly true...

"...after incurring restructuring charges for more than a decade, missing financial targets and trading at a low share price, investors' patience has worn thin. [Kodak] last made an annual profit in 2007.

" 'Kodak's transition to digital is the never-ending story,' said Gregg Abella, co-principal of Investment Partners Group, which owns more than 200,000 shares. 'I'm blown away that there hasn't been a shareholder revolt.' "

Analysis: Investors tired of waiting for Kodak to develop by Liana B. Baker, Reuters, February 17, 2011.

Ken

mopar_guy · Feb 19, 2011

David A. Goldfarb said:
The original post in that thread along with several other threads fit a pattern that we've seen before associated with underground marketing. As a matter of policy, we want to discourage underground marketing on APUG, because we've seen how it has destroyed the character of other forums, so it does not matter if there is worthwhile information in a thread that appears to be part of an underground marketing campaign. Underground marketing simply will not be tolerated on APUG.

So this thread is also "underground marketing"?

Will this thread be treated in the same way?

just curious.

Paul Sorensen · Feb 19, 2011

David, perhaps this is not the correct thread but I think that it might be good for all of us to know what it is that you are talking about. I know that everyone is busy, but perhaps a quick explanation in a thread in an administrative forum so that when this happens, folks can find out why and what it was that was going on. While I found the thread to be contentious at times, and it had lots of that ever popular doom and gloom going in, I didn't see any sort of marketing. I do believe you that the marketing was there, but I imagine others had the same experience.

mopar_guy · Feb 19, 2011

I found that thread to have useful information. I had intended to stock up on 120 Plus-X in March. Money is a little tight for me right now, but I have purchased 40 rolls. I think that March would have been too late.

David A. Goldfarb · Feb 19, 2011

Ian Grant said:
Are you saying Kodak's behind this ?

Ian

Absolutely not, and we can't really name names, but consider that manufacturers or dealers of competing products may find it in their interest to kill off PX sooner rather than later and to begin marketing their product as a replacement as quickly as possible, and APUG wants no part of that kind of activity.

hpulley · Feb 19, 2011

Crazy thing is I can still buy Verichrome Pan on eBay. I just got a 1966 expired VP 126 Kodapak, expired in May 1966 so I figure it must be from one of the first runs. Got some 1959 expired 620 too which must be first run as well as Verichrome Pan came out in 1956 (was ortho before that, just Verchrome, not Pan). So there will be PX in 120 around for a while I presume. 125 ISO film lasts well past its expiry date so the current 2012 May expiry should last for a while if you insist on shooting it like silly me with my love of VP. Of course I shoot FP4+ more because at $3.69 roll it is much cheaper than hunting down VP all the time but once in a while it is fun to shoot the old films again.

I'm still not sure I should shoot these old rolls but on the other hand I don't collect cameras that are that old or older, I shoot them, so I should probably shoot the film too...

tjaded · Feb 19, 2011

I think one problem Kodak does have in spades is a poor communication between departments/distributors/vendors. I tried to figure out more about Plus-X a little while back. One distributor I work with had a "definitely discontinued" on the Plus-X long roll 35mm (100') and a "yeah, that's gone" for the 120 and the 24 exp version of the 35mm. That being said, when I was trying to bring in Plus-X Super 8 I got word from THREE distributors that it was gone. Then out of the blue, some showed up with good dating. What does it all mean? Who the heck knows. If Kodak is anything like all the business I have worked for that were in decline, there is some serious confusion as things change rapidly from day to day. Makes it really hard for people to know when/if to start hoarding or whatever, but that's the brave new world we seem to be in right now. I just keeping hoping that Kodak can continue to make SOME film for a while.

Sort of a side rant here...a guy was in my shop the other day (my film corner inside a record store--story background!) He looked in my 'fridge and complained of the cost of film..."that's why I switched to digital...blah blah." All I could think was, "How much was that cup of Starbucks your sipping on?" If you think about what you are actually getting when you buy a roll of film it is kind of amazing. Of course, that's why I am sitting here freezing my butt off waiting for someone to come in and buy film and Starbucks has a line of people waiting to buy a cup of joe. Whoops!

nworth · Feb 19, 2011

This is indeed very sad. Kodak's patent position is still very strong, but it is deteriorating with time. Their products are excellent, but that does little good unless they can market them worldwide. The problems in both areas speak to poor management. Unless they can solve these problems and return to world class R&D and world class sales and marketing, they are dead - both for film and digital.

Plus-X discontinued...WTF?

mtngael

Ian Grant

Photo Engineer

mtngael

mtngael

Paul Sorensen

DWThomas

2F/2F

Paul Sorensen

Ian Grant

mtngael

Ian Grant

PHOTOTONE

Photo Engineer

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

2F/2F

Ian Grant

Ken Nadvornick

mopar_guy

Paul Sorensen

mopar_guy

David A. Goldfarb

Moderator

hpulley

tjaded

nworth

Plus-X discontinued...WTF?

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