Plumbing Question

Cheryl Jacobs · Nov 28, 2005

I've got a great ten-foot darkroom sink, but need a bit of advice on hooking it up. Any advice or close-up photos would be much appreciated.

I'm hooking up to a washing machine connection, and want to split the output three ways. One faucet for general use, one faucet to hook the archival washer to, and one PVC line to supply large wash trays. High pressure is not a huge issue, as no more than two of those would be in use at any one time, and mostly just the faucet with the washer on it.

I'm thinking some sort of header would solve the problem, but the teenager working the plumbing aisle at "Home Depot, you can do it, just don't ask us how!" didn't know if such a product exists. I could custom build one, but I would much prefer a premade product if there's one out there.

The other question I have regards temp regulators. Is that something found at a plumbing supply store, or is that a photo-specific application needing to be found at a camera shop?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Alex Hawley · Nov 28, 2005

Cheryl, you probably won't find a ready-made three faucet manifold. But one can be easily made. Just go to home Depot and start putting pieces together until you get what you need.

resummerfield · Nov 28, 2005

Washing machine connections are one hot and one cold, each with a common garden hose thread. I dont know of any premade product, at least not one at reasonable cost.

I would make up 2 manifolds, each consisting of 1) one male garden hose to ¾ male NPT, 2) one ¾ coupler, 3) two ¾ x ¾ x ½ reducing tees, 4) ¾ x ½ reducing el, and finally 5) 3 short sections of ¾ threaded pipe to connect the coupler, 2 tees, and reducing el, in that order. Choose the length of these sections to match the spacing of the tees and el to the spacing you wish at the sing. That would result in a manifold with 3 half-inch threaded holes, into which you could connect faucets. Get a roll of ½ inch Teflon tape and wrap each threaded end prior to assembly. Connect the manifolds to the washer supply with standard washing machine hoses, which have two garden hose ends.

The best photo quality temp regulators are found at the photo stores. I dont suggest used, as they will probably need rebuilding. One of the best Ive used is by Hass Mfg. A step down in performance, but still acceptable, is a common shower control valve with the anti-scald feature. (I think most, if not all, now have this feature).

Home Depot or Lowes should have every fitting you could ever need, to connect any faucet or valve you could imagine. Grab one of those orange bibs at Home Depot and drag them over to the plumbing section, and have them assemble the parts in front of you so youll know you have everything when you checkout. Then just tighten when you get home.

waynecrider · Nov 28, 2005

If you look under your kitchen sink you'll see how faucets are set up. Just add another stub off your copper water line to the sink with a valve on the end. You need the valves by the way even tho you have faucets. Three stubs, three valves and three supply lines to the three faucets. Three compartment sink? You can punch holes in the back for extra faucet locations if there are less then 3. Drill a pilot hole and get a proper size hole punch. Hopefully your sink is stainless.

noseoil · Nov 29, 2005

Cheryl, sounds like an interesting problem. I would first do a simple sketch of the supply you need. Do you need temperature controlled water at each station? If so, the temperature control valve needs to be first in line, followed by the other stations. This should be readily accessible, so you are able to have it "handy" on the wall above the sink. From there, it should be fairly simple to do the rest. If the mixing valve is only needed at one point, it can be located at that position and fed by the other lines.

Instead of the "Home Delay" type of help, try a True Value or a mom & pop hardware or plumbimg supplier. They tend to have better help. Although gray hair is not necessarily what you are looking for, a teenager at a large retailer is the last person to ask. Think about plastic or metal. Copper or galvanised (paper or plastic)? Copper is best and sweating copper is very easy to do and permanent. Do you need that type of setup, or will it be temporary? Is the room heated? Do you need faucets or "hose bibs" for the valves? Please find someone who can help you before you spend time and money. Planning is the best friend you have at this point. tim

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 29, 2005

You can find temperature regulators for darkroom use from one of the big photo supply places, like B&H or Calumet. Generally, you would want one of them at the beginning of the line, and you would split the other lines off of it, so that all processes would be at the same temperature (you're not going to be doing color and B&W at the same time, are you?).

If the different stations are physically in a line, you could connect them in series, so there would be a line from the regulator to a T with a spigot and another line that goes to another T with a spigot and another line that goes to the third spigot. You could do it easily with copper or PVC line, and for better temperature control, you could insulate the pipe with foam pipe insulation.

mgb74 · Nov 29, 2005

A few points:

1. A plumbing supply shop may be a better place for advice (as suggested earlier), but I've had good success with Home Depot staff IF you're there when the right person is there. So find out when their most experienced person is there. May or may not be good enough.

2. Are you dedicating this washing machine connection to the darkroom use? That will impact how you design it.

3. If you are running washing machine hose to the "manifold" make sure you use the stainless steel mesh covered hose.

4. You mention 3 outputs. I assume you want some temp control on each of them, but do you want separate temp controls?

5. Have you considered putting a filter in line (hate to complicate things)?

6. You could build this with copper if you are comfortable soldering it, galvinized pipe, or brass fittings. Have you decided what you want to use? I would avoid galvanized pipe.

It shouldn't be that complicated for them to figure out, but you should start with a "conceptual" diagram to make sure they really understand.

Donald Miller · Nov 29, 2005

Unless you are planning on running only cold water to the sink and washer, you are going to have to contend with temperature control and possible backflow problems. Check valves in the supply lines are in order.

Additionally some type of backflow prevention is called for to meet plumbing codes. The aforementioned check valves will not suffice for this requirement. A vaccum breaker device is what plumbing codes in most municipalities require.

ROL · Nov 29, 2005

Please copy image if needed as I will delete in a week or so.

Dave Starr · Nov 29, 2005

For temperature control I use a Delta shower control valve. It's not as precise as a dedicated mixing valve, but I can set it to within one degree of what Ii need, and it's a LOT cheaper at 60 bucks than the Hass at 500 bucks.

jp80874 · Nov 29, 2005

Cheryl,

I set my eight foot sink up with two standard wash tub hot/cold mix faucets. As I added Jobo and two print washers (a five slot 16x20 and later a 12 slot 20x24) I ran out of outlets. In my many pilgrimages to Home depot I found two splitters that may have a place in your plan. They were at Home Depot. They appear to be cast bronze and are made by a company called Orbit. The name is cast into the fitting. One is a simple one into two splitter with hand turn valves for selection. The other is a one into four manifold, each output has its own levered valve. All four outputs can run or any number below.

As someone earlier suggested I have water filters upstream to make sure this is the cleanest I can get.

Good luck.

John Powers

Whiteymorange · Nov 30, 2005

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=90955

jp80874 · Nov 30, 2005

Yeah Whitey, that looks just about like it except that the one I purchased had black rubber covers on the four valve handles. I can't imagine that doing anything positive at darkroom temperatures. If really hot they might be nice, but I don't do really hot. I don't remember what I paid.

John Powers

jeroldharter · Nov 30, 2005

I run the hot water line through a filter and the cold water line through a filter.

Then the filtered water runs to a Hass Intellifaucet.

From there, the line bifurcates and I have several Chicago Faucet lab bibs that connet to plastic hoses for washers, etc. All of the water is filtered and tempered.

If I did it again, I would have a separate line independent of the Intellifaucet just in case.

Peter De Smidt · Dec 1, 2005

I have a Hass intellifaucet, and I woudn't want to be without it.

The harbor freight unit looks like a good choice. One thing to remember, though, the temperture coming out of each of the valve might not be exactly the same, as the hot and cold water isn't completely mixed by the time it comes out. In my shower, whenever I switch from the regular shower head to a handheld, the water gets hotter, and this is despite the fact that both heads are rated for the same flow. This would be easy enough to test for.

Regarding Home Depot, around here the associates make between $7.50 and $12/hr. How much can you really expect? The week before they were probably in an unrelated department. Like any other similar place, you have to find the person who knows a little bit about what you have in mind. Having worked at a Home Depot, I have a lot of sympathy for these people. The pay's poor, the hours are terrible, and there's way too much micro-management.

Cheryl Jacobs · Dec 11, 2005

Thanks for all the great input, everyone! Bob and I now have a temp-controlled darkroom sink installed, with just the drain left to do. I'll be teaching a workshop out of my darkroom starting tomorrow, so it's just in the nick of time. Once everything's finished and back in place, I'll try to take a shot or two of my reworked darkroom. I'm lovin' it.

- CJ

jeroldharter · Dec 11, 2005

These are some pictures of the Chicago Faucets things:

http://www.chicagofaucets.com/catalog/catalog.php?PartNum=986-909AGVCP&FamilyID=138

http://www.chicagofaucets.com/catalog/catalog.php?FamilyID=139&manufact=1

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