Please yourself only?

frank · Jan 1, 2008

I would not take that fact that you haven't been discovered and appreciated for your unique vision by the art world as a true indication of your abilities. The art establishment is fickle and motivated more by the potential to make money than by recognizing true artistic vision. (That's my rationalization for not "making it" anyway.)

Dave Miller · Jan 1, 2008

frank said:
Very interesting thread! I read somewhere a quote from someone addressing a young person looking for direction in life: Ask not what the world is looking for, ask what it is that makes you fully alive. The world is looking for people who are fully alive. (or something to that effect)

I think this is applicable here. We all have only our own potential. It is our personal journey to realize it.

Make the photographs that please you. Stay true to your own vision. Doing otherwise only takes you away from your path.

"Don't ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive and go and do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Eric Hoffer: Philosopher

Wise words.

frank · Jan 1, 2008

Alden, in re-reading your post #25, I see that it is you who are dissatisfiied with your photographic efforts, specifically the vision part as opposed to the technical aspect. Rest assurred that you DO have something to say, and the dissatisfaction and questioning of your current work is just a necessary step in your artistic growth. There would be concern about stagnation if this didn't happen.

rorye · Jan 1, 2008

No, the maker should absolutely not be excluded from the pleasure of their creation. I think that's why most of us make photographs, paintings, songs, what have you. Exposing film, watching a print come up in the tray, hanging a new piece on the wall, all moments that can give me a gut feeling unattainable in any other way. If other people like what you've made then even better, but the pleasure is a personal thing. Failure of vision? You have a vision otherwise you couldn't make images that speak to you.
I've had many days when I just can't feel moved to pick up a camera or look at a photograph, but thankfully they always pass!
Best,
Rory

JBrunner · Jan 1, 2008

Don't worry about missing out on the commercial world. Everybody I know in it wishes to be just an artist. I myself am working hard for the day when I don't have to gnaw on the rat.

Regret? Worthless. Only homo sapien thinks past time is worth something in the present or a possible future. You have the knowledge of the experience, other than that it doesn't exist, so get on with now. Take a lesson from our animal bretheren.

Last- We always work to please ourselves. Even the most selfless charitable person in the world is self absorbed in that respect. We do what pleases us, or what our little minds whip us in to doing, to please that mean little judgemental mind. That's the mind that concepts "regret".

Have a cup. Suffer beauty. Suffer some thing as you have never seen it.

You're no dummy Alden. Knock my socks off, if it pleases you.

Alden · Jan 1, 2008

Oh JBrunner, you are a bard.

JBrunner · Jan 1, 2008

Alden said:
Oh JBrunner, you are a bard.

Call me anything you want, except don't call me late for dinner.

cahayapemburu · Jan 2, 2008

eddym said:
Wow. You have summed up what I believe about art better than I ever have. I would like to take the liberty of saving your comments for future inspiration.

You flatter me that my thoughts on thje subject have some meaning for you.

Fintan · Jan 2, 2008

Friends and relatives are forever suggesting I photograph this or that, do weddings, high-key childrens portraits etc etc.

They dont seem to get that I photograph what I like to photograph and in a style that pleases me. If other people like what I print then thats cool but its certainly not what drives me.

I am not a professional so I have that freedom.

Mick Fagan · Jan 2, 2008

Well I'm riding hard in my fabulous fifties and starting to knock onto the sexy sixties.

I take your point of sometimes being at despair of things, but there will be a swing, things turn around.

As for not really getting your backside into gear in your other lifetime, well, let bygones be bygones. You really cannot do much to redress the situation.

I myself used to despair at being forced to leave school and home at 13 1/2 years of age, not anymore, I got over it!

I only shoot to please myself these days, no weddings, Christenings, birthdays, including immediate family, unless I'm that way inclined on the day.

Having been at a quite low point, photographically speaking, some years ago, I then discovered this site, things haven't looked back since, perhaps this may be the kick you need?

You are no longer in a photographic wilderness.

Mick.

Jim Chinn · Jan 2, 2008

As long as the work you are doing gives you pleasure keep at it. The fact that you are asking these questions leads me to believe that perhaps it is time to expand your horizons. Experimentation often leads to a renewed focus and enthusiasm. You may find that new subjects and approaches may not be your cup of tea, but the experience and knowledge gained will improve the work you enjoy the most.

dpurdy · Jan 2, 2008

other than being obligated to clean up after ourselves, an artist's only obligation is to maintain his/her inspiration and enough energy and drive to act on that inspiration. If you study trends or success and follow a formula then your work is commercial. If you follow your own inspiration and work to express it to your greatest satisfaction then someone else will find inspiration in it as well. If they don't.. oh well. Working as a visual artist and gnawing on the bone of your desires shouldn't be guided by philosophical wonderings.

Alden · Jan 2, 2008

I'll add another twist to this thing just to be annoying, although maybe another thread would be best, I dunno. Seems people have overlooked one simple fact, and that is, we are not all gifted. This idea of an inner world that is ours to plumb is not my experience. I've looked within for countless meditation years and all I've found in there was bad music jingles, polar bears, and Jennifer Anniston. Theres nothing there but the debris of commercial consumption. In other words, if I want to be an artist, I have to make it up. I have to say, this is what I value, but lets face it, I have to build from bits of string. Looking hard produces no self at all. No one is really there. I feel I at least am only what I do, and that good work comes primarily from work, work, work at it. Hopefully deftly and not desperate, but maybe that too. So contemporary work is not a matter of stealing trends against my true inner self, it's the very atmosphere that surrounds us all. Ignoring it may lead to entrenchment, and fogeyism.
Unless of course you actually have something to express. I have painted and photographed, for almost forty years, and all I can truly say about it is that I have to apply considerable force to gain any ground at all. Why do it? I value it. Ijust don't find my results to be very impressive, and I fear that if I am kindly towards myself, as many of you have been kindly towards my pathetic by now moaning, that I'm done for. Hit me.

Chan Tran · Jan 2, 2008

Please myself only! Unless I do the work for others (with or without pay) then I would try to please the intended audience.

pesphoto · Jan 2, 2008

Is one a successful artist only if those in the art world say you are? Who cares about that world and being overly critical about oneself, really. We'll all be dead at some point, enjoy your pasttime and relish in the experience of photography. Share your photos with us here and with friends and family. I dont have that drive where I need commercial success so maybe that makes it easier for me to relax about it and enjoy. My Mamiya 645 just arrived via UPS!!!

SilkAngel · Jan 2, 2008

I retired so I no longer had to work to please someone else. What I photograph is in my style to please me.

When I am taking a class, there are certain parameters that I must meet but the work, the ideas, must be my own. I want to know that when I walk out of the darkroom I have produced the best possible work that I can. I am looking for my WOW factor.

cahayapemburu · Jan 2, 2008

Since Eric Hoffer was quoted earlier in this thread, I thought the following might provide comfort to those among us who have at some point considered ourselves failures:

"The difficult and risky task of meeting and mastering the new—whether it be the settlement of new lands or the initiation of new ways of life—is not undertaken by the vanguard of society but by its rear. It is the misfits, failures, fugitives, outcasts and their like who are among the first to grapple with the new."

Eric Hoffer

Chuck_P · Jan 2, 2008

If it does not please me first then, I don't care if it pleases somebody else "anyway", and if they want it, they will get it only after it pleases me; and second, as long as I like it, I don't care if anyone else doesn't.

It should be clear from that, that I don't make a living from my photography. It must always please me first.

Charles Webb · Jan 2, 2008

Wow, some great input here, it shows where I have made some (according to the thread) major errors in my photographic decision making. For the record, I have never made photograph that totally pleased me! I have never thought of myself to be an artist, though I have several degrees to proove I have the background, knowledge and skills to be one. I maintain I am not an artist, my work has always been of a documentary nature. For more than fifty years I have photographed (mostly in largemat) what was there. My only job
during this period was making images that pleased other people. Art directors fought me tooth and nail trying to tell me where they wanted the camera to be and where the lights were placed. If they were wrong in my mind I fought just as hard as they did to make my point. Sometimes I won somestimes I lost but I still ended up with an image they all loved. In my mind it was a document of what the client wanted, not an pleasing expression of my own.

I was heavily influenced by A. Adams, even attended a couple of his workshops, learned a lot but did not become an artist from his exposure. There have been many others that have influenced me, but I still remain a picture maker, not an artist. While many of my images/photographs hang on museum walls, others
illustrate magazines and books, I simply documented what I saw, not create art of the subjects.

I think it is amazing that so many spend their time, money etc. to persue becoming an artist to simply please themself. I never could have followed this path, I simply could not afford to attempt it. From my earliest days opportrating a big box, I prostituted myself heart and soul to making pictures that would feed myself and family
put my kids through school. To have a house and a few pleasures to enjoy. However the bottom line is/was
I was making photographs that pleased others, not myself. I have never made a photograph that had all of the elements in their proper position, the best composition possible. I have given it my best effort to do these all of these things, many times I come very close, but in the end it is still a document of what was there, not Art.

Charlie.............................................
PS, I do not wannabe an artist, I am happy whith who I am!

SilkAngel · Jan 2, 2008

Charlie, I don't think you made any major errors in your photographic decision. You made the decision to produce your best work for your client. You say you are happy with who your are. Be happy and proud of the accomplishments you have made and the life you provided for your family.

Alden · Jan 2, 2008

Charles Webb said:
Wow, some great input here, it shows where I have made some (according to the thread) major errors in my photographic decision making. .

Not at all. In fact I sometimes feel embarrassed when the workingman chimes in. You've been in the trenches, bringing home the bacon. I'm a product of the sixties. Self expression etc. etc. you know, hippies, left over beats. What we've got here is purely generational. The 80's finally, after many many years of art talk by leading historical figures in photography, and of course some inroads, began to take photographs seriously as an art form. Most likely this was due to the likes of Getty out in California picking up collections and people got word of it. Prices started up. Now they're insane. Anyway, long story short, this art bug has really hit. People are taking masters degrees and discussing whether a pile of dust is significant. Some of it is nonsense, some of it is gold. Take for instance Ansel Adams. He had to be usurped by people you might think are demeaning his grand style, but Robert Adams took a look at Denver's sprawl in the 70's and thought the real west was not so grand. This is an art movement of significance. There are alot of them today, and the really interesting thing for you might be how in photography, unlike most arts before it, the line between art and commerce is often non-existent. Everything, even craft and quality are all in question today. And they are all seen as fair game material. Don't let the notion of art, or artist, who is or what is, trip you up. I only bother with it because it's my idea of the bacon even though I don't make a dime from it. Figure that one out.

rorye · Jan 3, 2008

Hi Charlie,
I don't think prostituted. I'd say you worked damn hard for great reasons. Feeding my kids and putting them through school is hands down the most important thing I'll ever do. Hmm, then again, maybe I'm a happy hooker
Rory

jimgalli · Jan 3, 2008

As to pleasing myself, not in the self gratification way. But definitely in being true to who I am. My wife and friends try to persuade me back into pretty postcard calendar art but my heart isn't there. I won't even do it for folks willing to pay. Too little time on this earth to do what everyone else wants. I figure my chances are about the same as Mike Disfarmer. 50 or 60 years after I'm gone someone will find oak flat drawers of 8X10 negatives and add the bull shit quotient that I never will have, and voila, it'll be art.

dpurdy · Jan 3, 2008

Certainly there is a need for commercial art and working to specifications or at the service of an art director and then you should be paid well by the agency that is very pleased with itself for having chosen you. And if the product sells or they get a crush on your receptionist they will use you again. I think it is difficult for a lot of people but I was fortunate to be able to work in a commercial studio for years and keep my own mind and art seperate and know when I was pleasing myself.. other than in the bathroom.

Keith Taylor · Jan 4, 2008

Ian Leake said:
I believe that Cy DeCosse (Dead Link Removed) was in his eighties when he was discovered.

Ian,

Cy has just celebrated his 78th birthday and has been represented by various galleries for the past 18 years; the past 10 with John Stevenson.

Keith.

Please yourself only?

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