Please help with my bass ackwards approach to 8x10 format.

Wayne R. Scott · Nov 3, 2005

Hello,

I bought some 8x10 film holders at a flea market a couple of years ago. This spring I bought a Bogen 3036 tripod with a 3047 head, and then this fall I bought a Wollensak No. 3 Vitax Portrait f3.8 lens in a Studio No. 5 shutter at Good Will.

Now I am looking for an 8x10 Camera that has a front standard that will hold up this monster of a lens.

My goal is studio portraits and perhaps landscapes that may be photographed with in , Oh say, 8 feet of the car. I will have to buy the camera on line and I have been looking at B&J, Ansco, Kodak 2D, Kodak Master View and Deardorff as possible options. Money is of course a factor under $500 would be great, definitely under $1,000 is the budget for this fall. If I like it (the format) I may upgrade in the future. Translated this means I will be buying a 2nd 8x10 next year.

I have 3 Graphic 4x5 and 1 B&J 5x7 monorail already for what it is worth.

My two questions are:

What are my best bets for this lens and my price range?

Is my Bogen tripod adequate for 8x10?

Thanks!!

Wayne

Nick Zentena · Nov 3, 2005

Why not look at an old 8x10 monorail? You won't be hauling it. My Cambo cost just over $200 and included a packard shutter just a touch smaller then a small car. The big ugly monorails are often cheaper then the portable cameras.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 3, 2005

The tripod should be sufficient (I use a 3233, which is one size smaller), but you might want a bigger head, like a Majestic or Gitzo G1570 (M) or earlier 15xx head.

All the cameras you've mentioned should be okay as long as the lensboard is big enough for the flange. Maybe some of the Ansco models are a little light compared to the others for a big portrait lens, but you should definitely be able to find something in your price range from that group, with the possible exception of Deardorff, but if you can stretch to $1500 or so for a Deardorff now, you won't really have to upgrade in the future.

Wayne R. Scott · Nov 3, 2005

Nick Zentena said:
Why not look at an old 8x10 monorail? You won't be hauling it. My Cambo cost just over $200 and included a packard shutter just a touch smaller then a small car. The big ugly monorails are often cheaper then the portable cameras.

Thanks Nick,

Cambo model #? Or maybe a green monster Calumet C1? any others?

Wayne

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 3, 2005

Frank Petronio should show up here any time to tell you about his 8x10" Fatif (nice Italian studio camera) that he picked up for $250.

If you are going in that direction, you can likely find a Sinar 8x10" P for $1000 or less, but the lensboards are 139mm square, which might mean that you need to do something exotic to mount the lens.

Wayne R. Scott · Nov 3, 2005

David A. Goldfarb said:
The tripod should be sufficient (I use a 3233, which is one size smaller), but you might want a bigger head, like a Majestic or Gitzo G1570 (M) or earlier 15xx head.

All the cameras you've mentioned should be okay as long as the lensboard is big enough for the flange. Maybe some of the Ansco models are a little light compared to the others for a big portrait lens, but you should definitely be able to find something in your price range from that group, with the possible exception of Deardorff, but if you can stretch to $1500 or so for a Deardorff now, you won't really have to upgrade in the future.

Thanks David,

I have never handled any 8x10 camera. Are the Deardorffs that much better? I own Contax IIa and IIIa 35mm rangefider cameras and I know that they feel and work much smoother than Keiv Contax clones. Is the Deardorff the Contax or Leica of the Large format world?

Perhaps I should just wait and buy once. Are there different models of Deardorff?
Wayne

Nick Zentena · Nov 3, 2005

No it's not the C1. It's a Cambo monorail. I just don't remember it's name. I want to say it's super something or other. Long rail [48" or more?] big lensboard. Two tripod mounts.

But I'm just suggesting looking at any of the big monorails. Nobody will confuse them with a portable camera. If you aren't going to haul it then you can take advantage of the fact. Mine had obviously been used in a studio for years. But all it really took was to replace a couple of screws in the tripod mounts. I'm guessing the screws are a weak point since both tripod mount had bad ones that had be tighten many times over the years. OTOH I got 20 screws for $2.

laz · Nov 3, 2005

I have nothing to offer you, but I like you style!

Anybody have a ULF film holder to sell me?

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 3, 2005

Deardorffs are very intelligently designed, workhorse wooden flatbed cameras, and they are surprisingly light in weight. There are basically two commonly available versions of the 8x10", one with front swings and an older model without. There is probably a review linked to the main page at lfphoto.info.

There are modern cameras, wooden, metal, monorail, and flatbed, that have features that the Deardorffs lack, like more extensive rear movements or modern innovations like asymmetric tilts and swings, but these are conveniences more than necessities. I don't own one myself, but I've used them, and you could hardly go wrong with a Deardorff.

removed account4 · Nov 3, 2005

hi wayne

just make sure you get a 5x7 back for the 8x10 ( whatever you do! ) the 13.5" + 14" lenses are the perfect focal length for shooting 5x7 portraits (in studio or out) ... before he passed away, i had steve grimes fabricate me a few different lensboards (for huge lenses) that would work on my 5x7 camera ...

have fun!

-john

rbarker · Nov 3, 2005

Wayne R. Scott said:
. . . Is the Deardorff the Contax or Leica of the Large format world? . . .

The Deardorff is a nice camera, but no, I don't think so. That would be more like the Linhofs or maybe the Sinars.

My suggestion would be to consider the difference in requirements between studio and field work. For the studio, plenty of bellows extension, as provided by the larger monorails, is a huge plus. You might add a used Toyo 810 to your list, as it uses 159mm lens boards. They can often be found for less than the $1K budget you have now.

For field work, even close to the car, a wooden folder is far more convenient. Here, the Deardorff is a candidate, along with various other makes. I use a Tachihara double-extension 8x10 for field work. New, it's about the same price as a Deardorff that needs repair. But, I've adapted it to use elements from the Toyo, so I don't have to swap lens boards.

David A. Goldfarb · Nov 3, 2005

rbarker said:
Wayne R. Scott said:

Originally Posted by Wayne R. Scott
. . . Is the Deardorff the Contax or Leica of the Large format world? . . .

Click to expand...

The Deardorff is a nice camera, but no, I don't think so. That would be more like the Linhofs or maybe the Sinars.

Maybe a Deardorff is the Nikon F of the LF world.

Dave Parker · Nov 3, 2005

I might, just might venture to say the Ebony 8x10 might be close to the Leica of the 8x10 cameras, but again, just a might say.

Dave

jonw · Nov 3, 2005

If you interested, I have an 8x10 Kodak 2D with 4x5, 5x7, & 8x10 backs, the bellows are light tight, includes the extension rail, and at least one lens board and will top it off with a Voltare (sp) Wollensalk convertible lens in a betax shutter. It is a nice 8x10 convertible lens. I was going to list it on APUG, but if you are interested, I can take some pictures and email them to you. It is a "worker" viewcamera. The price would be $350 plus shipping/insurance. 3% donated to APUG. Jon

Wayne R. Scott · Nov 3, 2005

jonw said:
If you interested, I have an 8x10 Kodak 2D with 4x5, 5x7, & 8x10 backs, the bellows are light tight, includes the extension rail, and at least one lens board and will top it off with a Voltare (sp) Wollensalk convertible lens in a betax shutter. It is a nice 8x10 convertible lens. I was going to list it on APUG, but if you are interested, I can take some pictures and email them to you. It is a "worker" viewcamera. The price would be $350 plus shipping/insurance. 3% donated to APUG. Jon

Jon,

We need to talk! Are the lens boards on Kodak 2D 6"x6"? I would like pictures!!

Wayne

John Kasaian · Nov 3, 2005

Lots of good advice. If you want to do portraits, you might find a portrait camera---the kind that sit atop a cast iron stand. I've seen a few come and go on ebay in your range, usually Folmer or Deardorffs. No one wants them because they aren't portable (unless you're The Hulk) so prices tend to be reasonable. The down side is shipping. Look for one close to home and have a friend with strong back and weak mind (oh, and a pick up truck) to help. Bribe Him with whatever He wants. Oher than that, go with the C-i or an Agfa Ansco.
Have FUN!

Frank Petronio · Nov 3, 2005

I lucked out with the $250 Fatif, although if I need more than the two lensboards that came with it I will probably spend another $250 on one new lensboard from Italy.

Just don't buy a $500 DeGolden Busch like I did earlier in the summer. Still burning from that experience.

For the money, I'd just be patient on eBay and look for oddballs. The old Calument C-1 usually goes for cheap and is a very functional workhorse that is very fugly.

I'm jealous of you getting a shuttered portrait lens! Those are hard to come by and I bet you got it cheap too.

Troy Ammons · Nov 3, 2005

If you are not concerned about size, you may want to look around for a Cambo SC. I got one for super cheap, like $180 with a missing GG. It is a real tank though, but fairly stiff.

The real reason I like it is i also have a Cambo 4x5 Sc and the parts interchange. I am working on building a lighter 8x10 for hiking.

Frank Petronio · Nov 3, 2005

Also, I just emailed a dozen or so of the older studio professional photogs around Rochester (they know me) from the ASMP list, asking to buy any old 8x10 gear... Wow - big response - all of these old studios have gobs of monorails, big lenses, frozen out of date film, holders, etc. Now I have to talk them down to reality because they still think the lens they paid $3000 for in 1984 is still worth $2000 when in fact they are on eBay for $600...

Mongo · Nov 3, 2005

I'd strongly suggest you look at the Calumet C1. The front standard will hold up anything, the camera has a great set of movements (everything but back rise/fall), and if you're staying close to the car you can go for the heavier, black model and save a few dollars. $500 is way more than you'll need to buy the camera.

It can take Cambo or Deardorff lensboards. You could kill someone with it if you use it as a weapon. It's rock-steady on a sufficient tripod, even extended out to the maximum bellows (over 30") extension. You can get 5x7 and 4x5 backs for it. It's not the most popular camera because it's not light and it's fairly basic, but it does the job for which it's intended very well. I've used mine in the studio and in the field, and wouldn't trade it for anything. (I'll sell of all of my other 8x10s before I'll let go of this one.)

I make all of my own lensboards, and I find that the simple design of the Calumet/Deardorff boards is very easy to make using hobby plywood and some basic tools. I've mounted very heavy process lenses on mine using a Packard shutter, and the front standard is as solid as when it's empty.

There are lots of good cameras out there, but the C1 is hard to beat at the price point. It offers everything you could want except for light weight, but even then it's no monster. If weight is a great concern you could go for the lighter weight magnesium model (this is the one that I actually own) and save yourself a few pounds. I think mine comes in around 14 pounds with a lensboard but no lens...the black model is about 17-18 pounds. Again, if you're staying close to the car then this probably won't matter much to you.

Best of luck with your decision. 8x10 really is a whole different world, and is extremely addictive.

Be well.
Dave

Wayne R. Scott · Nov 4, 2005

Frank Petronio said:
For the money, I'd just be patient on eBay and look for oddballs. The old Calument C-1 usually goes for cheap and is a very functional workhorse that is very fugly.

I'm jealous of you getting a shuttered portrait lens! Those are hard to come by and I bet you got it cheap too.

Hi Frank,

Yes, I have strange powers when it comes to acquiring camera equipment. I will start thinking about aquiring some piece that I think I need and most definetly want and it suddenly shows up at a garage sale, good will, or the new neighbor just happens to be an 84 yr old professional photographer whose eye sight is going bad and wants to have his equipment go to some one who will appreciate it. The appreciative person happens to be me .

So it came to pass that I wanted an older soft focus large format lens after reading some reviews and seeing the results of these lens. Then suddenly one shows up at Good Will. Now if I could just get those darn powerball lottery numbers to show up.

Now I need to find that 8x10. I may pick up Jon's Kodak 2D it seems like it could be a good deal. I am keeping an eye out for a C1 also. I normally have back ups for my back ups when it comes to cameras. I see no reason for 8x10 to be an exception to my rule.

Wayne

Paul Sorensen · Nov 4, 2005

Frank Petronio said:
Just don't buy a $500 DeGolden Busch like I did earlier in the summer. Still burning from that experience.

Sage advice since I think that it is about to show back up on eBay again. Seems about the right time for the newest owner to be fed up with it and try to turn it over.

df cardwell · Nov 4, 2005

A 2D/Ansco/Agfa 8x10. Very good. The inherent wobbles can be taken out with a couple carpenters' spring clamps. Don't be too pure to use them, photogs used them when the cameras were new. The Weston trick: clamp a piece of rod or flat steel from the front to back standard.

A Calumet is the great 8x10 wonder ( thank Kodak ! ). Fantastic.

You're using a Big Moose of a lens. The easy trick to support it with a single tripod is to use TWO TRIPODS. A good medium weight tripod to take the weight, a good light tripod under the front standard. The caveat is how tall you are.

This works because the camera wants to rotate on the axis of the single tripod, as well as 'teeter totter' on a single tripod. Even a monopd under the front standard helps a lot.

have fun

.

herb · Nov 4, 2005

If you want to have the huge lenses, I think a metal camera is better. I had a Kodak D2 and while it does have a geared front rise, the Toyo's are more robust, and more expensive. The 810 G I have never leaves the studio, (20lbs and counting!), but it will hold any lens I have seen, even a 600MM Nikon process lens. Geared rise with heavy lenses is a real plus.

Jon Shiu · Nov 4, 2005

Does Kodak D2 have any tilt or swing on front standard?

Jon

Please help with my bass ackwards approach to 8x10 format.

Wayne R. Scott

Nick Zentena

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