Please help with lens information and value.

Loner12 · Mar 18, 2024

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for some information about a lens that I acquired a few months back. It was part of a collection that was given to me from a deceased relatives equipment.

The research I've done so far tells me that it is a Rodenstock 300mm Apo-sironar-W. According to the information I've gathered, it's a pretty rare and valuable lens. My knowledge about lenses and photography is limited. While I did talk a lot with my relative, I've never really done anything myself. With what I know, I'd say it's in very good condition. Everything seems to work fine, and all the mechanicals are smooth.

My questions are mainly about Value and the best way to go about selling it. If asking for a valuation isn't against the rules. I've had people tell me it's worth $500. I've also had people tell me it's worth $10,000. It seems like the people that are giving me the higher ranges, know a lot more about what the lens actually is. Many people have suggested to post about the lens here on Photrio, so here I am.

My goal is to sell the lens. I don't want to rip anyone off, myself included. With my limited knowledge about the lens, and lenses in general, I'm hoping to find a more concrete price for the lens. Finding more information from someone on how to fully inspect the lens would be great. I want to ensure I don't miss flaws or issues the lens may have.

Thank you.

koraks · Mar 18, 2024

Welcome to Photrio!

Loner12 said:
If asking for a valuation isn't against the rules.

No, that's fine as long as the thread steers clear of constituting an offer to sell the lens. That's in principle OK, too, but only in the Classifieds section. Here's some info on how that part of the forum works: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/how-the-classifieds-section-works-read-this-first.204146

But for now, and as it is, please continue.

Loner12 said:
Finding more information from someone on how to fully inspect the lens would be great.

For starters, check the following:
* Any apparent fouling or damage, scratches etc. to the glass elements and the exterior of the assembly.
* Completeness of the lens; i.e. is it mounted in a shutter, does the shutter have a matching aperture scale, is the mounting flange present to mount the lens on a lens board, and is the lens perhaps mounted on a lens board already?
* Any damage or deformation of the filter ring at the front of the lens
* Any damage to the lens surfaces, including buffing, slight scratches, dimples/pits, etc.
* Any signs of fungus, dirt or debris inside the lens assembly (visible through the lens elements)
* Operation of the aperture; this needs to be smooth
* Appearance of the aperture blades; these need to be undamaged and free of any oil or liquid
* Correct operation of the shutter at all speeds; speeds can be verified for correctness with a variety of shutter testers. The easiest/most accessible way is to record the sound of the shutter and analyze this waveform in a sound editor to determine the delay between the shutter opening and closing.
* Shutter blades should be without deformation or damage and also free of oil/liquids
* Shutter blades should open and close promptly without 'sticking'
* Verify whether the flash trigger on the shutter functions properly; the easiest way to do this is with an actual flash unit triggered by the shutter and viewing the flash through the lens itself to verify the timing is correct (this works best with the shutter mounted on a camera)
* Correct operation of the manual shutter override lever that opens the shutter for focusing

Finally, there's a phenomenon called "Schneideritis" that affects many large format lenses. It's visible as bubbles along the inner edge of the lens assembly, where the glass meets the barrel of the lens. Here's a good example: This does not affect the images at all or the usefulness of the lens as such, and it's very common under large format lenses. It may slightly affect the value of the lens, and it's good practice to mention it when selling the lens. I don't know of anyone who has ever avoided purchasing a lens because of this condition since it's so common and harmless.

Sean Mac · Mar 18, 2024

There are two up on the obvious auction site for around $1500 at the moment.

Seems reasonable to me.

$10,000 seems very optimistic.

Don_ih · Mar 18, 2024

Sean Mac said:
There are two up on the obvious auction site for around $1500 at the moment.

300mm Apo-sironar w lenses? Maybe n lenses. There's only one on ebay at the moment, and it's over 10000 (not that anyone will buy it).

Jim Jones · Mar 18, 2024

Sometimes sellers post ridiculous prices. For a more reasonable evaluation, check only the selling price of items that have actually sold.

Ian C · Mar 18, 2024

A lens, or anything else you might want to sell, is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Large-format photographers are knowledgeable about lenses. There are many other lenses that will accomplish the same result. Some are significantly lower in price than others.

bdial · Mar 18, 2024

^what Jim said, in the Ebay filters select sold prices. It also doesn't hurt to factor in shipping prices on the sold listings, though for things like your lens sellers don't tend to overly inflate shipping for extra profit.

Also check KEH.com and usedphotopro.com for what amounts to low-end retail pricing. Be honest with yourself as to evaluating condition.
Shop retail prices will tend to be around double what the shop will pay for an item, i.e. wholesale.
For private party sales, such as in the classifieds here, prices for an item will tend to be somewhere between retail wholesale and eBay.

Much depends on how common or desirable a particular item is.

neilt3 · Mar 18, 2024

Sean Mac said:
There are two up on the obvious auction site for around $1500 at the moment.

Seems reasonable to me.

$10,000 seems very optimistic.

Sold items in the listings is the price to look at , not ones for sale.
You can advertise them at any price , it means nothing.
It what they sell for that counts .

Steve Goldstein · Mar 18, 2024

One challenge with searching sold listings is that eBay drops them after 90 days. This makes it really hard to find info on uncommon items that appear only infrequently.

If it truly is a 300mm Apo-Sironar-W (yellow stripe) or Apo-Sironar (earlier version, no yellow stripe) it is worth quite a bit. The $10k eBay listing is optimistic; one indication of this is the fact that the listing has been around for a while (it's been relisted at least once). IIRC one sold on eBay within the past year or so at around $5k.

These lenses are quite rare, enormous, and heavy (listed as 1610 grams, around 3-1/2 pounds). Measure across the front where filters mount - if it's a bit over 5 inches or ~130mm then it's probably the real deal. Does it have a yellow stripe? What's the serial number? Can you post a couple of photos?

Sironar nomenclature can be confusing. The following is from memory but I think approximately correct: Originally there was just the Sironar; these are convertible lenses that now seem prone to separation. These were replaced by the Sironar-N, which covered 72 degrees. Later came the Apo-Sironars - available only in 150mm, 210mm, and 300mm - with 80 degree coverage. After this Rodenstock introduced the 75-degree Apo-Sironar-S line with the red stripe, at which time they renamed the Sironar-N as Apo-Sironar-N (adding a white stripe) and renamed the Apo-Sironar as Apo-Sironar-W (adding a yellow stripe).

The Apo-Sironar-N family was also sold by Calumet, marked as Caltar II-N. There are also Caltar II-S lenses, but these are Schneider Symmar-S lenses, not Rodenstock Apo-Sironar-S. I believe the Calumet-Schneider custom branding deal ended when the Calumet-Rodenstock deal began.

Mark J · Mar 18, 2024

Sold items aka 'Completed Items' on the selection tree at the left.

Don_ih · Mar 18, 2024

"Sold items" do tell you what people have paid but are relatively useless in establishing a value for something that rarely comes up for sale. If only 5 people in the world want X and no one else really knows how much X is worth, when some guy puts X on ebay at $60, one of the 5 people that knows what X is buys it for that price. That in no way says it would not have sold for more if it had been priced higher.

Similarly, some people overpay for things simply because the high-priced offer is the only one available at the time.

neilt3 · Mar 18, 2024

Mark J said:
Sold items aka 'Completed Items' on the selection tree at the left.

"Completed items " include ones whose listings ended unsold possibly because they were overpriced , so don't mean anything.
"Sold" listings are the ones that sold .
They give you a current value of the item.

As mentioned for uncommon items this might not be much help.

Mark J · Mar 18, 2024

Ah OK thanks. I think they added a few categories a while back, I had missed that. I'm sure it just used to be 'completed items' but I may be wrong.

Marcelo Paniagua · Mar 18, 2024

Ian C said:
A lens, or anything else you might want to sell, is worth exactly what someone else is willing to pay for it.

Large-format photographers are knowledgeable about lenses. There are many other lenses that will accomplish the same result. Some are significantly lower in price than others.

Quite agree with Ian. Large format lenses are tricky to sell/ estimate value. Really need somebody that need the lens and got deep pockets.

Probably already pointed out but maybe Large Format Forum would be a better place to look for info/customers

Large Format Forum

Neil Poulsen · Mar 20, 2024

This is an excellent lens for 8x10 and will work with 11x14, even with the Schneideritis. (Surprising on a Rodenstock.) But that said, 8x10 and larger formats are being dumped by so many photographers, because of the increasing prices of film.

Were it me, I would begin by asking $1800 for this lens. But, you can always go higher and then come down later, if needed. ($2400?)

koraks · Mar 20, 2024

Neil Poulsen said:
even with the Schneideritis

No images of or by this lens were posted.

neilt3 · Mar 21, 2024

koraks said:
No images of or by this lens were posted.

Nor have they bothered responding.
If they really wanted a guide to value , they need to post plenty of good quality images of it .
What they think is good condition, we might not !
Makes a big difference to value , as does if all the shutter speeds are reasonably accurate.
They haven't provided nearly enough to get an approximate value .

koraks · Mar 21, 2024

neilt3 said:
Nor have they bothered responding.

Go easy on them, it's been only a few days. Many people don't have this stuff at the top of their list of priorities.

Loner12 · Mar 27, 2024

koraks said:
Welcome to Photrio!

No, that's fine as long as the thread steers clear of constituting an offer to sell the lens. That's in principle OK, too, but only in the Classifieds section. Here's some info on how that part of the forum works: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/how-the-classifieds-section-works-read-this-first.204146

But for now, and as it is, please continue.

For starters, check the following:
* Any apparent fouling or damage, scratches etc. to the glass elements and the exterior of the assembly.
* Completeness of the lens; i.e. is it mounted in a shutter, does the shutter have a matching aperture scale, is the mounting flange present to mount the lens on a lens board, and is the lens perhaps mounted on a lens board already?
* Any damage or deformation of the filter ring at the front of the lens
* Any damage to the lens surfaces, including buffing, slight scratches, dimples/pits, etc.
* Any signs of fungus, dirt or debris inside the lens assembly (visible through the lens elements)
* Operation of the aperture; this needs to be smooth
* Appearance of the aperture blades; these need to be undamaged and free of any oil or liquid
* Correct operation of the shutter at all speeds; speeds can be verified for correctness with a variety of shutter testers. The easiest/most accessible way is to record the sound of the shutter and analyze this waveform in a sound editor to determine the delay between the shutter opening and closing.
* Shutter blades should be without deformation or damage and also free of oil/liquids
* Shutter blades should open and close promptly without 'sticking'
* Verify whether the flash trigger on the shutter functions properly; the easiest way to do this is with an actual flash unit triggered by the shutter and viewing the flash through the lens itself to verify the timing is correct (this works best with the shutter mounted on a camera)
* Correct operation of the manual shutter override lever that opens the shutter for focusing

Finally, there's a phenomenon called "Schneideritis" that affects many large format lenses. It's visible as bubbles along the inner edge of the lens assembly, where the glass meets the barrel of the lens. Here's a good example: This does not affect the images at all or the usefulness of the lens as such, and it's very common under large format lenses. It may slightly affect the value of the lens, and it's good practice to mention it when selling the lens. I don't know of anyone who has ever avoided purchasing a lens because of this condition since it's so common and harmless.

Thank you for all that information. I'll be using what you've listed here to check it over. From what I've seen so far, there are no scratches, fungus, pitting or dirt in, or on the glass. There is no "Schneideritis". All the mechanicals work smoothly but it isn't mounted on a board. I'll look in more detail once I get a chance.

Loner12 · Mar 27, 2024

bdial said:
^what Jim said, in the Ebay filters select sold prices. It also doesn't hurt to factor in shipping prices on the sold listings, though for things like your lens sellers don't tend to overly inflate shipping for extra profit.

Also check KEH.com and usedphotopro.com for what amounts to low-end retail pricing. Be honest with yourself as to evaluating condition.
Shop retail prices will tend to be around double what the shop will pay for an item, i.e. wholesale.
For private party sales, such as in the classifieds here, prices for an item will tend to be somewhere between retail wholesale and eBay.

Much depends on how common or desirable a particular item is.

Thanks for the reply. When I checked with KEH, they offered $2400. I didn't send in pictures to them. I just told them it seemed like it was in good condition.

Loner12 · Mar 27, 2024

koraks said:
Go easy on them, it's been only a few days. Many people don't have this stuff at the top of their list of priorities.

Thank you. I just started a new job. They had me booked up and now I'm 700 miles away from home for the next week. I plan on being more active when I get back home.

Thanks to everyone that had taken the time to help me.

Loner12 · Mar 27, 2024

Dan Fromm · Mar 28, 2024

Hmm. Your photos show no Schneideritis but the second one shows what appears to be separation.

koraks · Mar 28, 2024

Dan Fromm said:
the second one shows what appears to be separation.

I don't see it, really. If you mean the magenta/orange shape to the left, that looks like a normal reflection on the lens coatings to me. The bubble-like shapes to the right would also be reflections of a specular light source. The glass looks really clean to me.

Mark J · Mar 28, 2024

I'm with Koraks on this, the lens looks very good to me.

Please help with lens information and value.

Loner12

koraks

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Sean Mac

Don_ih

Jim Jones

Ian C

bdial

neilt3

Steve Goldstein

Mark J

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neilt3

Mark J

Marcelo Paniagua

Neil Poulsen

koraks

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neilt3

koraks

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Loner12

Loner12

Loner12

Loner12

Dan Fromm

koraks

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Mark J

Please help with lens information and value.

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