Please help- For finer grain is TriX best in Rodinal or D-76?

fotophox · Mar 19, 2005

Sodium metaborate = borax (the Mule Team stuff)?

calderasf · Mar 20, 2005

Perceptol is no longer

Soeren said:
Hi Nicole
Rodinal is a Non solvent developer aka acutance developer. It is not a fine grain dev
But enhances the sharpness and also the grain
D-76 is a solvent developer, When used full strength, because of the sulfite containt. It desolve the grain a tiny bit making them apear finer. There is true fine grain developers like Perceptol.
Cheers Søren

Hi Perceptol has been discontinued 12/04 I recommand ID-11 for the best grain now Perceptol was so fine grained I didn't have grain!!! On Ilford 50 asa pulled to 25 ASA develped 1:3. I am starting over with ID-11 again 1:3 I'm a have huge fan of extended development times. Ilford rep told me that the Perceptol was over kill on grain in 1:3 and I would like the increased sharpness (if that is possible I felt I was so sharpe already) and my grain still would be very fine. Time will tell has I have just started again in B & W after long layoff. Mario > Giordano

dancqu · Mar 20, 2005

Maine-iac said:
The above MYTOL will work fine, except that the sulfite is totally unnecessary and does nothing in a Phenidone/Ascorbate developer.

The fellow who compounded MYTOL, the homebrew XTOL; he did
not know that the sulfite in his formula was "totally unnecessary"
and "does nothing"? Imagine that. Dan

jim appleyard · Mar 20, 2005

fotophox said:
Sodium metaborate = borax (the Mule Team stuff)?

Sodium Metaborate is the same as Kodak's Kodalk and its new name Balanced Alkali.

Borax is Sodium Tetraborate, more commonly known by its trade name, 20 Mule Team, available in grocery stores.

jim appleyard · Mar 20, 2005

Maine-iac said:
If you don't want to mix your own, use Xtol. If you want to mix your own, a very simple (3 common ingredients) is easy. The above MYTOL will work fine, except that the sulfite is totally unnecessary and does nothing in a Phenidone/Ascorbate developer.

Consider trying this:

water 1 liter
5 g (1 tsp.) sodium metaborate OR (depending on your desired developing time and level of activity) 6g (1 tsp.) sodium carbonate
4 g (1/2 tsp.) Vitamin C crystals or powder from your health food store
4 ml. 1% Phenidone stock solution (I dissolve 1 g Phenidone in 100 ml. 90% isopropyl alchohol from the pharmacy.)

Try a starting time around 6-7 minutes at 72F (22C). You may have to play with it a bit to get the time you want, but that will get you in the ballpark.

Use this as a one-shot. Takes no more than 2 minutes mixing time. Very fine grain, full tonal scale. I call it PCM for the phenidone, Vitamin C, metaborate version or PCC for the carbonate version. I find the carbonate works best with Delta 100, Fuji ACROS, while the metaborate version works best with Delta 400. For the slower films, the metaborate version needs 9-10 minutes.

Larry

If the Sod. Sulfite does nothing, then what acts as the preservative for the developer? Does the Vit. C do double duty, preservative AND developer?

fhovie · Mar 21, 2005

dancqu said:
The fellow who compounded MYTOL, the homebrew XTOL; he did
not know that the sulfite in his formula was "totally unnecessary"
and "does nothing"? Imagine that. Dan

I'll bet Mytol was reverse engineered from XTOL and so the team of Phd's at Kodak had no idea the sulfite was uncesessary. The sulfite does some softening of the grain -

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 21, 2005

jim appleyard said:
If the Sod. Sulfite does nothing, then what acts as the preservative for the developer? Does the Vit. C do double duty, preservative AND developer?

Yes, the Vitamin C acts both as a preservative and a developer. The sodium sulfite affects solution pH and also is a silver solvent.

I personally prefer the version without the sodium sulfite.

Mike H · Mar 26, 2005

Looking at it from a cost perspective, Unblinkingeye.com posted this interesting comparison on a per-liter basis:

http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/Developers/Cost/cost.html

Pyrocat-HD surprisingly (to me, at least) comes out cheapest at $0.15 per liter of working solution.

Charles Webb · Mar 26, 2005

Nichole,
Apparently you did not read my comments in a similar thread. Hunt up what I wrote, try it, and you will not be sorry! I dont pretend to be an artist, but I have a damn fine reputation as a professional photographer.

I do know what works without a bunch of tom foolery going on! All of these
favorite brews that have been listed, will develop film. When you have tried them all, D 76 will be close to the top of the list in giving super sharp nearly grain free printable negatives.

ian_greant · Mar 26, 2005

hmm I've done this comparison so I might as well kick in my opinion.

I use TriX for natural light portraits and generally end up pushing it 1 to 2 stops. Even with a three stop push the grain is not overly intrusive. The contrast can make printing a chore.
I tried rodinal and found it wasn't complimentary for the work I did. Oddly enough many people don't like having harsh grain in their photos. Occasionally I'd get a neg that was really nice but in general it was too fussy for me.

D76 is simple, cheap, available and flexible. Now, these are not attributes that appeal to many here but you have to choose what works for you.

On the other hand I really like rodinal for large format landscape and architecture.

I've attached a couple negs done in D76. (the 35mm is actually pushed about 3.5 stops)

Tom Hoskinson · Mar 27, 2005

Charles Webb said:
Nichole,
When you have tried them all, D 76 will be close to the top of the list in giving super sharp nearly grain free printable negatives.

I agree with your fine grain statement about D76.

I disagree with your super sharp statement. D76 is a low acutance developer - Kodak says so and my own test results agree.

lee · Mar 27, 2005

JohnArs · Mar 27, 2005

Hi everyone

I'm for example not interested in the cheapest soup, for my negs only the best compromise is best and this is for me Xtol.
Its almost the same as the Amen in the church!
I buy not modern and expensive sharp lenses and then make a compromise at the developing stage. Film and developer are in my opinion the cheapest part of my work!
Good light and nice shadows to all of you!

Please help- For finer grain is TriX best in Rodinal or D-76?

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