playing it safe ?

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

i don't really know where ( or how ) to post this question ...

it is about seeing, equipment, film, exposure, processing printing, presentation pretty much everything that photography seems to be about
i know people like to do what they like to do. some folks like to photograph their pets, others their yard, and garden, others life (street, portraiture)
and others .. the built and natural environment and still others "other" . for some it not only is something they love to do ( maybe a hobby or a job ) but it over
the years, over the endless rolls processed, sheets exposed, alternative process chemistry spread on the sheet ends up seeming like just going through the motions.
not saying it isn't enjoyable or photography is supposed to be something else .. or is it ?

sometimes i find myself taking the same photograph i took 30 years ago, and to be honest i am not sure if it is any better than the first time i saw it.
is taking the same photograph over and over playing it safe ?
even though it might be a portrait of a different person, a photograph of a different building, different people walking on the street infront of you,
differnet countryside is it any different than it was before ?

not even sure if playing it safe is the right expression .. but by doing something one feels comfortable doing too safe and not allowing
the person making the photographs a chance to get "better" or "grow" (sorry for the cliché'd expressions ).

chriscrawfordphoto · Apr 27, 2015

I'm too busy telling a story with my photographs to worry about 'taking the same picture I took 30 years ago.' Most photographers aren't doing that; they obsess over making an individual image that is interesting or pretty. Then they get bored with it because they look at years of work and it is just a stack of unrelated photos.

blansky · Apr 27, 2015

jnanian said:
i don't really know where ( or how ) to post this question ...

it is about seeing, equipment, film, exposure, processing printing, presentation pretty much everything that photography seems to be about
i know people like to do what they like to do. some folks like to photograph their pets, others their yard, and garden, others life (street, portraiture)
and others .. the built and natural environment and still others "other" . for some it not only is something they love to do ( maybe a hobby or a job ) but it over
the years, over the endless rolls processed, sheets exposed, alternative process chemistry spread on the sheet ends up seeming like just going through the motions.
not saying it isn't enjoyable or photography is supposed to be something else .. or is it ?

sometimes i find myself taking the same photograph i took 30 years ago, and to be honest i am not sure if it is any better than the first time i saw it.
is taking the same photograph over and over playing it safe ?
even though it might be a portrait of a different person, a photograph of a different building, different people walking on the street infront of you,
differnet countryside is it any different than it was before ?

not even sure if playing it safe is the right expression .. but by doing something one feels comfortable doing too safe and not allowing
the person making the photographs a chance to get "better" or "grow" (sorry for the cliché'd expressions ).

I think it's complicated.

I once said that Norman Rockwell's work was a cop out because he just did the same "style" over and over. People were not impressed with my statement.

But it's complicated when it comes to "commercial" work vs personal or hobby stuff. In commercial work, the wisdom is you develop a unique style and stick to it because it's easily recognized as yours, thereby earning you massive sums of money. Or not.

In personal of hobby stuff, we can easily get in a rut, get lazy, or just like the "style" we're in. The challenge comes when we become dis-satisfied with it and become bored.

Then it's time to give ourselves projects to get the juices flowing again. Sometimes it's also time to take a break. Evaluate and reflect. I do it every 7 years. I just stop and clear my head for a few months.

For me the number one way to get motivated is to take a workshop, study with someone, and get it all cranked up again.

RobC · Apr 27, 2015

Taking the same photograph over and over (once you are proficient at technique) shows a lack of imagination and/or boredom.

Sirius Glass · Apr 27, 2015

RobC said:
Taking the same photograph over and over (once you are proficient at technique) shows a lack of imagination and/or boredom.

+1

Well said

pdeeh · Apr 27, 2015

Not understanding that the same photograph taken over and over again can show terrific imagination shows a lack of imagination

segedi · Apr 27, 2015

chriscrawfordphoto said:
I'm too busy telling a story with my photographs to worry about 'taking the same picture I took 30 years ago.' Most photographers aren't doing that; they obsess over making an individual image that is interesting or pretty. Then they get bored with it because they look at years of work and it is just a stack of unrelated photos.

^ this.

darkosaric · Apr 27, 2015

Joseph Koudelka. When he became master in something: he abandons it. Gipsy series is masterpiece - and then after that he did not do that any more. After he mastered daily life situations people and decisive moment - he abandons it. Then he goes in landscape ... This is truly a genius approach, like Picasso.

Trail Images · Apr 27, 2015

playing it safe ?

I guess after doing it for so long I find I'm doing the opposite. Meaning more experimenting with various ideas all around. Although admittedly my "safe harbor" is landscape scenes only, I still find myself working a bit different then previous years. This routine is based upon the "safe harbor" also being a place I go to often, so if I fail with the experiment(s) I can always return another day. If out of town and MONEY being used for the travel and little chance for return then I fall back on a much more normal MO.

dpurdy · Apr 27, 2015

Safe from what?
Wasting time and materials on an image that won't sell?
Blowing your own cover and becoming disillusioned with your personal myths of being a good photographer?
Failing to impress someone?
Feeling like a failure?

ParkerSmithPhoto · Apr 27, 2015

RobC said:
Taking the same photograph over and over (once you are proficient at technique) shows a lack of imagination and/or boredom.

Poor Edward Weston. He never got the memo and spent years photographing peppers and kelp, over and over again.

And that German couple, Bernd and Hila Becher, spent their lives photographing water towers and gas tanks, over and over again.

You could direct this accusation at just about any photographer of note -- Strand, Callahan, Avedon, Penn, etc. -- and it would be equally nonsensical. Should Chopin only write ONE nocturne?

sdotkling · Apr 27, 2015

Man, you're the most imaginative guy on this site. You go places no one's been, with really interesting exploratory work that defies categorization, yet has a steady theme running through it. You mess with the materials the way an artist is meant to, looking for limits and crossing lines. Take solace, and don't stop what you're doing.

(I just read a piece in the NYTimes about a hermetic painter who painted triangles and p-like images for 40 years, in secret, and now people realize his single-minded genius. Maybe there's a lesson here. Ignore the world, do what you are doing, and see where it takes you.)

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

dpurdy said:
Safe from what?
Wasting time and materials on an image that won't sell?
Blowing your own cover and becoming disillusioned with your personal myths of being a good photographer?
Failing to impress someone?
Feeling like a failure?

playing it safe --- always being in one's comfort zone.

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

sdotkling said:
Man, you're the most imaginative guy on this site. You go places no one's been, with really interesting exploratory work that defies categorization, yet has a steady theme running through it. You mess with the materials the way an artist is meant to, looking for limits and crossing lines. Take solace, and don't stop what you're doing.

(I just read a piece in the NYTimes about a hermetic painter who painted triangles and p-like images for 40 years, in secret, and now people realize his single-minded genius. Maybe there's a lesson here. Ignore the world, do what you are doing, and see where it takes you.)

you are really nice to say that sdotkling .. thanks for the kind words they are appreciated.

dpurdy · Apr 27, 2015

What is uncomfortable?

pbromaghin · Apr 27, 2015

There are several subjects that I like to re-shoot just to see if I can do it better than last time, to see if I have learned anything.

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

dpurdy said:
What is uncomfortable?

it is different things for different people.

i can't speak for you or anyone else, i have no idea what is uncomfortable for you.

i have a whole iist of things that i am uncomfortable doing.

dpurdy · Apr 27, 2015

What I meant was, what do you mean by uncomfortable? A sneaking feeling? Doing something that makes you worried for some reason? A sick feeling in the stomach that you are doing something wrong? What is the reason to play it safe when being an artist? Protecting your money, protecting your reputation, protecting your idea of yourself, fear of facing failure?

Chris G · Apr 27, 2015

"Life is more successfully looked at through a single window, after all."

Shawn Dougherty · Apr 27, 2015

I haven't felt that outside of the commercial work I stopped doing in 2004. I couldn't find a way to be excited about working for other people, through photography anyway. I have a couple of friends who work almost solely for clients now, enjoy it and have grown creatively. I admire them for it, I don't have that ability.

I place very few limits on myself. I photograph whenever and whatever I feel inclined to... Luckily I feel inclined to most of the time. I make certain that I am as honest as possible with myself about the work and that I always take a fair amount of time to think critically about it, why I made it, how it's different or derivative of my past work or that of others... I feel like I've continued to grow over the years, visually as well as technically. I think being honest with myself and being willing to waste film trying things I'm not sure of but which I find exciting have been the keys for me... thus far. Of course I have my moments, I'm sure we all do.

Nathan King · Apr 27, 2015

ParkerSmithPhoto said:
Should Chopin only write ONE nocturne?

Having played all twenty-one of them, if he did only compose only one I would hope it would be the Opus 62 Number 1 in B-Major.

Repetitively exploring subject matter can be a healthy way of internalizing and increasing understanding, but it can also become a deep rut for those afraid of experimentation. I found myself in the latter predicament quite recently was able to force myself out of my comfort zone by photographing with a member of my camera club. Our little adventure involved flashlights, long exposures, and the possible use of Kayaks. I just developed the negatives and am not quite sure what I have yet, but I guarantee those images will be very unique.

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

dpurdy said:
What I meant was, what do you mean by uncomfortable? A sneaking feeling? Doing something that makes you worried for some reason? A sick feeling in the stomach that you are doing something wrong? What is the reason to play it safe when being an artist? Protecting your money, protecting your reputation, protecting your idea of yourself, fear of facing failure?

hi dennis

do you mean for me? i can't speak for you or anyone else about this becaue i don't have a clue with what you are comfortable wtih and not comfortable with.
i am familiar with some of the photographs you make, but i have no idea what you are comfortable doing, i have no idea if you actually enjoy working with people
or if it is some sort of self imposed therapy you do ... and you would rather be photographing birds, or grass on the coast ...
i know what makes me comfortable, and what i don't really like doing these days ... ( and i still try to do it just the same ... )

removed account4 · Apr 27, 2015

blansky said:
I think it's complicated.

I once said that Norman Rockwell's work was a cop out because he just did the same "style" over and over. People were not impressed with my statement.

But it's complicated when it comes to "commercial" work vs personal or hobby stuff. In commercial work, the wisdom is you develop a unique style and stick to it because it's easily recognized as yours, thereby earning you massive sums of money. Or not.

In personal of hobby stuff, we can easily get in a rut, get lazy, or just like the "style" we're in. The challenge comes when we become dis-satisfied with it and become bored.

Then it's time to give ourselves projects to get the juices flowing again. Sometimes it's also time to take a break. Evaluate and reflect. I do it every 7 years. I just stop and clear my head for a few months.

For me the number one way to get motivated is to take a workshop, study with someone, and get it all cranked up again.

thanks blansky

you hit the nail on the head
it IS complicated.

in a handful of 7 year-resets
have you ever reverted back to
one of the veins you were drilling before,
but from a different perspective ?
yeah, i know it is all a shift in perspective ..
but ...

blansky · Apr 27, 2015

jnanian said:
thanks blansky

you hit the nail on the head
it IS complicated.

in a handful of 7 year-resets
have you ever reverted back to
one of the veins you were drilling before,
but from a different perspective ?
yeah, i know it is all a shift in perspective ..
but ...

I'm in one now.

I'm going back to almost exclusive black and white. As I wrote on another thread, I think it takes a picture to another level. It add gravitas, and timelessness to an image. It just seems more "important".

In our throw away society, it seems more permanent. Less trendy.

With my decent but limited talent, after 40 years it's probably the best I can and have achieved.

ParkerSmithPhoto · Apr 28, 2015

blansky said:
In our throw away society, it seems more permanent. Less trendy.

I've been looking at so much painting lately, mostly Dutch Masters, and I can't get my head around the depth, resonance and complexity of the work compared to our (as my sister would say) "shallow as pee-pee on a plate" culture, with the endless, narcissistic flow of self-absorbed Instagram snaps. It's quite sad.

blansky said:
I once said that Norman Rockwell's work was a cop out because he just did the same "style" over and over. People were not impressed with my statement.

Totally disagree on Rockwell. I've seen his work in person, many times, most recently just two weeks ago. He was a superlative painter, an American original. I think sometimes people mistake the repetition or execution of an artist's unique style -- that is, what makes their art THEIR ART and not someone else's, recapitulated -- with a lack of imagination, which, in Rockwell's case, it most decidedly is not.

He is one of those rare case where commercially rewarded creativity becomes art. Avedon and Penn are two other excellent examples.

playing it safe ?

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