Planning to open and test a bulk roll

Bill Burk · Apr 21, 2019

I used up all my individual boxed rolls of Panatomic-X so its time for me to crack open a bulk roll of expired film.

I have four sealed 100’ bulk rolls to choose from.

Panatomic-X exp 12/85 kept frozen
Panatomic-X exp 3/86 uncontrolled
Plus-X exp 3/86 uncontrolled
Tri-X exp 9/84 uncontrolled

The uncontrolled film is at room temperature and was given to me with no claim about its storage. I figure the Tri-X would be fogged and might rate 64 like the last old Tri-X I tested.

The Plus-X might still be good at 100. I haven’t ever tried old Plus-X.

I’m betting either roll of Panatomic-X would be fine at 32. I’ve never seen it fail at any age or condition so am not too worried there.

Oh I also have a 100’ roll of Ilford Pan F 50 exp 7/2003 uncontrolled. I bought that roll new but never refrigerated it because I thought I was going to use it right away. Then started working for Kodak kept that roll a secret.

I think I should load up the exp 3/86 uncontrolled Panatomic-X and test it first, since it’s the one which will prove how lucky I am. (If it’s good then I have a whole roll of good film to look forward to, plus a roll in the freezer).

Any other advice? There’s no wrong answer....

Patrick Robert James · Apr 21, 2019

Snip off an inch or two in the dark and add it to whatever film you are developing. That will tell you if it is fogged without having to go through the effort of shooting it.

Bill Burk · Apr 21, 2019

I've got three full rolls of Panatomic-X to reel, and I can do sensitometry test(s) on any length of whatever I open. I'm giving the Panatomic-X 10 minutes in D-76 1:1 so that's what the test snip is going to get. (That empty reel in the tank is another part of my motivation to crack open a bulk roll).

Trey · Apr 22, 2019

I’d be willing to buy a bit of the Panatomic-X if you’re willing? I never had the opportunity to try it but from what i’ve seen it’s lovely.

trendland · Apr 22, 2019

Bill Burk said:
I used up all my individual boxed rolls of Panatomic-X so its time for me to crack open a bulk roll of expired film.

I have four sealed 100’ bulk rolls to choose from.

Panatomic-X exp 12/85 kept frozen
Panatomic-X exp 3/86 uncontrolled
Plus-X exp 3/86 uncontrolled
Tri-X exp 9/84 uncontrolled

The uncontrolled film is at room temperature and was given to me with no claim about its storage. I figure the Tri-X would be fogged and might rate 64 like the last old Tri-X I tested.

The Plus-X might still be good at 100. I haven’t ever tried old Plus-X.

I’m betting either roll of Panatomic-X would be fine at 32. I’ve never seen it fail at any age or condition so am not too worried there.

Oh I also have a 100’ roll of Ilford Pan F 50 exp 7/2003 uncontrolled. I bought that roll new but never refrigerated it because I thought I was going to use it right away. Then started working for Kodak kept that roll a secret.

I think I should load up the exp 3/86 uncontrolled Panatomic-X and test it first, since it’s the one which will prove how lucky I am. (If it’s good then I have a whole roll of good film to look forward to, plus a roll in the freezer).

Any other advice? There’s no wrong answer....

No advice but just a guess : The 84 - 86 rolls have lost the characteristics you love from Pantomic-X in massive way! But you of course can use it like normal bw Film with compensating
workflow (but the films don't look like Pantomic-X - perhaps it look like with immense phantasy)

The 85 Pantomic-X will serve you identical characteristics you can compare with your negatives
you shot before discontinuation. I guess you have notes from developer workflow and can operate
same procedure today!

with regards

trendland · Apr 22, 2019

Bill Burk said:
Oh I also have a 100’ roll of Ilford Pan F 50 exp 7/2003 uncontrolled.

Well - 2003 was a good year - that is not exclusivly stated for wine!
It was also a good year for 2003 PanF .....! (no latent image problems)
I would bet your messurements will show a lost of speed wich is B E L O W 1/3stop!

with regards

PS : From that date I would see no problem in general with characteristics - but (just from my point - this is like a border) so don't give your PanF 20 years in addition from normal
(uncontrolled ) storage because T H E N there will be a difference in characteristics beside
a relative lost of speed!

PPS : What about to sent some single meter of your PanF out of 2003 to Ilford?
For me Ilford is a good player (beside some issues) - what about to give Ilford a chance?
And ASK ILFORD IF IT IS POSSIBLE TO PRODUCE PAN F IN THE SAME QUALITY AGAIN?

!

Pentode · Apr 22, 2019

I’m gonna take a wild guess that you’re right about the Pan-X probably being fine. That stuff ages pretty gracefully even under adverse storage.

I have a lot of outdated Plus-X but I haven’t tested any of it yet. My assumption is that it’s probably not lost all that much speed but may be fogged a bit. Just a guess.

Tri-X baffles me completely; I’ve shot expired rolls that were very badly fogged and others that looked pretty good and hadn’t lost much speed. What puzzles me is that it didn’t always seem to correlate to the storage conditions. Some Tri-X that I know was stored very badly seemed fine and vice-versa. I have very little expired Tri-X left (maybe three or four factory rolls of 36) and, after they’re gone) I’ll probably stick to slower ASAs when it comes to expired film. 400 is just too unpredictable.

gorbas · Apr 22, 2019

Hi Bill, I'm still using 100' roll of Panatomic X expired in March 1969. No idea where and how was stored all this time? Still Great film to use.
Plus X I have, expired in 04/96 is great for "experiments", nothing else.
Tri-X, I will not bet on that one!

abruzzi · Apr 22, 2019

I have some ~20yo PXP. It had lost a fair amount of speed and had a lot of base fog.

Bill Burk · Apr 22, 2019

abruzzi said:
I have some ~20yo PXP. It had lost a fair amount of speed and had a lot of base fog.

Thanks for the hint that even Plus-X may be bad. Makes me more sure that trying the “worst” of the two Panatomic-X may still be my best plan.

Pentode · Apr 22, 2019

Assuming you're going to open all of those 100' rolls eventually, why not open the most volatile first?
Open the Tri-X. If it's completely shot, you'll know soon enough and it's out of your freezer and out of your life. Move on to the Plus-X. If that's bad, at least you know you've got Pan-X to fall back on.

MattKing · Apr 22, 2019

Pentode said:
Assuming you're going to open all of those 100' rolls eventually, why not open the most volatile first?
Open the Tri-X. If it's completely shot, you'll know soon enough and it's out of your freezer and out of your life. Move on to the Plus-X. If that's bad, at least you know you've got Pan-X to fall back on.

+2

ic-racer · Apr 23, 2019

Bill Burk said:
I used up all my individual boxed rolls of Panatomic-X so its time for me to crack open a bulk roll of expired film.
...

Any other advice? There’s no wrong answer....

You should elucidate the effects David L.'s expired film recipe.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threa...ts-of-age-fog-in-b-w-films-and-papers.161268/

Bill Burk · Apr 24, 2019

Thanks, I'm thinking about it.

I also realized a good reason to keep and use the Tri-X, even if it only tests out to EI 64... Baseball grain!

Planning to open and test a bulk roll

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