Pinkish hue on Platinotype White

eggshell · Apr 28, 2006

Hello again,

Does anybody know a way to tweak the pinkish hue of the image on Platinotype White paper to something like warm brown? I'm doing pure palladium with PO. The pinkish image looks wierd to me and certainly doesn't agree with my cream matboard. I tried tea-staining but that didn't help. Thanks again.

photomc · Apr 28, 2006

Seems like warming the PO will also warm up the print...might give that a try.

eggshell · Apr 28, 2006

photomc said:
Seems like warming the PO will also warm up the print...might give that a try.

Thanks Photomc. Actually I dread warming up the PO. The fume gets stronger and my darkroom isn't ventilated. ...OK maybe I'll do so with a face mask. Appreciate it!

scootermm · Apr 28, 2006

Have you considered getting a cheap inexpensive microwave dedicated to darkroom work? I found one recently used for $25 and it works great. You can put your Pot. Ox in a big pyrex and just zap it in the microwave so the fumes would be at least limited somewhat and plus its alot faster than putting the developer on a hotplate to warm it.

to be honest I have never seen a pinkish hue from a pt/pd on cranes, and Ive done a fair amount of them. you are using distilled water in your developer right?
makes me wonder if something in your water could be adding to the pinkish stain. not sure.

Kerik · Apr 28, 2006

I've seen that pinkish hue on the bright white platinotype. I cured it by not using that paper anymore. I'm not fond of any of the versions of 'platinotype', but the bright white is just gross, IMO.

EricNeilsen · Apr 28, 2006

eggshell said:
Hello again,

Does anybody know a way to tweak the pinkish hue of the image on Platinotype White paper to something like warm brown? I'm doing pure palladium with PO. The pinkish image looks wierd to me and certainly doesn't agree with my cream matboard. I tried tea-staining but that didn't help. Thanks again.

Your pinkish color, is just in the image area and not the paper? What are the other active chems FO or AFO, your clearing baths? printing RH? type of PD?

Eric

eggshell · Apr 28, 2006

Scooterman, Yes my PO is mixed using distilled water but I doubt that is the cause. I've used other papers without the pink hue. I also use a microwave to zap the PO as you suggested. Can't escape the fume!

EricNeilson, Yes, Pinkish hue is just in image area. My FO is bought from B&S and I added 0.5gm EDTA and 1.2gm OA to it as suggested by Kerik in earlier posts. Cleared with citric acid followed by sulfite/edta. RH is around 72%, room temp around 86deg f developed out process.

Thanks to all.

EricNeilsen · Apr 29, 2006

eggshell said:
Scooterman, Yes my PO is mixed using distilled water but I doubt that is the cause. I've used other papers without the pink hue. I also use a microwave to zap the PO as you suggested. Can't escape the fume!

EricNeilson, Yes, Pinkish hue is just in image area. My FO is bought from B&S and I added 0.5gm EDTA and 1.2gm OA to it as suggested by Kerik in earlier posts. Cleared with citric acid followed by sulfite/edta. RH is around 72%, room temp around 86deg f developed out process.

Thanks to all.

Eggshell, First I would try printing at a lower Rh; around 45%. I'd also consider using ammonium based palladium in place of some of the sodium based ( if that is what you are using). DMK has used the PO near boiling, I've only gotten it up to 150F or so. If the smell is too much, keep it covered until use, an dthen pour it back into the holding vessel.

Eric

eggshell · Apr 29, 2006

EricNeilson, I did a print at 130 deg f and no, it didn't help much, if at all. A de-humidifier is no good for the pocket at this point in time. (Sigh...) I think the cheapest solution is to avoid this paper altogether as Kerik did. Anyway, thanks very much for helping out again.

EricNeilsen · Apr 29, 2006

Eggshell, A hairdryer is a cheap de humidifier. : ) , but sometimes it is better to move on rather than to keep fighting a losing battle.

Eric Neilsen

eggshell · Apr 29, 2006

EricNeilson, Oh yes, I'm using a hairdryer to dry the coating. Didn't occur to me that the paper is de-humidified in this manner. Thanks for making me realise that.

EricNeilsen · Apr 29, 2006

eggshell said:
EricNeilson, Oh yes, I'm using a hairdryer to dry the coating. Didn't occur to me that the paper is de-humidified in this manner. Thanks for making me realise that.

Then the question becomes, How much time elapses between coating /drying and then printing? If you are drying your paper with a hair dryer, and then printing straight away, I'd guess that your paper,in an environment of 72% RH is getting down to somewhere between 20% and 35% RH. It would need to rest for about 20 minutes to 30 minutes, before it would get back to 72% as in the room. That all of course depends on how long you dry, what you dry it on, ...

The RH in the paper at time of exposure will also be influenced by the paper/negative sandwich and what that is being held by when getting the exposure and how hot that light source is getting the glass.

Are you using a contact frame or vacuum frame? Backing the paper with another non porous material will help keep the moisture in the paper. Do your images show much image when you pull them out of the contact frame? No image can be an indication of very low RH in the paper. It can also be caused by the type of Ferric Oxalate being used. I ran test with B&S powder, Formulary Liquid, my liquid, Brian Miller's liquid, and some of Jeffrey's powder. While there was a difference in print out (this is with FO not AFO) I was hard pressed to find a direct correlation to speed, but there were differences in print color.

Eric Neilsen

eggshell · Apr 30, 2006

EricNeilson, I print immediately after drying. I use a printing frame bought from B&S. It has a felt backing. There is very little image after exposure. The mid tone and highlight are usually quite latent. The darkest part shows a faint black. I suppose I can let the paper humidify for a while and find out the difference. I've got a lot to learn. Thanks very much for going into details. Very kind of you.

EricNeilsen · Apr 30, 2006

eggshell said:
EricNeilson, I print immediately after drying. I use a printing frame bought from B&S. It has a felt backing. There is very little image after exposure. The mid tone and highlight are usually quite latent. The darkest part shows a faint black. I suppose I can let the paper humidify for a while and find out the difference. I've got a lot to learn. Thanks very much for going into details. Very kind of you.

Eggshell, Then I would definitely recommend that you let the paper sit, in a non UV part of your darkroom/coating area, for 30 minutes before printing. You can help the paper retain more moisture during exposer by using saran wrap or similar product behind your paper between it and the felt. You should also see a speed gain in that palladium is FASTER at higher humidity levels. So don't expect it to print at the same speed. You can additionally humidify after exposure, but I have never measured the effect, but you will see additional print out. If this is your standard printing technique, you will see across the board shift in color on ALL papers.

If you want to try the ZIA approach, get a room humidifier and steam your paper. Since I started rehumidifing my coated paper, I have used a humidifing box with a fan and a rheostat control wicking system. I prefer the evenness of a chamber as a opposed to the ramdomness of moving the paper evenly over a moisture stream. It also frees one up to do other procedures in the coating exposure work flow.

Thinner papers can use less time, but I like 30 minutes to allow for a little back and forth in the moisture flow as the paper stabilize to your desired rH.

Eric

eggshell · May 2, 2006

Hi again EricNeilson,

I did a couple of tests. The pinkish hue becomes more unpleasant on the air dried print. Printing speed is a little shorter, but not too much. One question I'd like to ask is what lighting do you use to evaluate your prints? Outdoor lighting, the pink is very clear. A mixed of natural & tungsten light seem to camouflage the pinkish hue. I think mixed lighting is ideal but the print should not be unpleasant in daylight, like the pink I have now.

I'm going to add some platinum on my next test to see if the pink goes away. That's as far as I'll go. I shall move on. Thanks again for helping.

EricNeilsen · May 2, 2006

eggshell said:
Hi again EricNeilson,

I did a couple of tests. The pinkish hue becomes more unpleasant on the air dried print. Printing speed is a little shorter, but not too much. One question I'd like to ask is what lighting do you use to evaluate your prints? Outdoor lighting, the pink is very clear. A mixed of natural & tungsten light seem to camouflage the pinkish hue. I think mixed lighting is ideal but the print should not be unpleasant in daylight, like the pink I have now.

I'm going to add some platinum on my next test to see if the pink goes away. That's as far as I'll go. I shall move on. Thanks again for helping.

When you say, air dried print, does that include the use of a hair dryer and then a 20 to 30 minute period where the paper sits in the dark? I use three lighting conditions to view prints; a daylight florescent bulb, a balance of tungsten spot with daylight tungsten, and the natural light out in the hall way in the building where my studio is located.

Can you scan a sample of your pink along with a normal, your normal, tone? Do you have another paper to try that is also white? How much of an investment do you have in this paper? And how was it stored? I don't have any of it. I use COT 320, Arches Platine, Coventry Rag, Bein Fang 360, Van Gelder's Simili Japon, and of the Cranes from the Formulary, but can't recall any going pinkish.

I'd be happy to make a step wedge test on a sheet and post a jpeg for you or send you the test to judge against your own samples.

Eric

eggshell · May 2, 2006

EricNeilson, The print is double-coated. The first coat is dried using air dryer. The second coat is left to dry in the dark for 30 min. I have 50 sheets of Platinotype White in 11x14" size. So that's not much to waste (and a lesson learned too). As to your request for a scan of the print, do you mind if I sent actually samples to you? That way, you will have an accurate assessment. If that is okay, please PM me your address. Your private email would be helpful too. Thanks again. Really appreciate it.

Pinkish hue on Platinotype White

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