Pinholes with 35mm HP5 from Pyrocat-HD?

gainer · Jun 10, 2008

I don't have enough experience using Pyrocat HD to be dictatorial about it, but from what I have seen with the MC, development time should be as close to the carbonate B as two batches of anything I make can be. The working pH I measure with a meter is 11.1, and it's not likely to change a whole lot with dilution errors, due to the borax part of the solution, I guess. The B concentrate measures about the same as the working dilution.

The 20 Mule Team borax you can get at most supermarket detergent sections is quite good enough, although you may never get PE to say so.

Dave Krueger · Jun 11, 2008

I got some borax at the store to experiment with. It would be nice if I could solve this problem simply by changing solution B. I am not likely to get to it right away, though. I seriously pulled a muscle in my back yesterday stopping down to clean up a coffee spill, so now I'm all pumped full of cortisone, muscle relaxers, and other non-photographic chemicals. Amazing how, as one gets older, mere movement is a threat to one's wellbeing. On the bright side I try to look at these events as an opportunity to legitimately experiment with new attitude enhancing drugs. Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to go watch the color bars on channel 19 for a while...

gainer · Jun 11, 2008

Dave Krueger said:
I got some borax at the store to experiment with. It would be nice if I could solve this problem simply by changing solution B. I am not likely to get to it right away, though. I seriously pulled a muscle in my back yesterday stopping down to clean up a coffee spill, so now I'm all pumped full of cortisone, muscle relaxers, and other non-photographic chemicals. Amazing how, as one gets older, mere movement is a threat to one's wellbeing. On the bright side I try to look at these events as an opportunity to legitimately experiment with new attitude enhancing drugs. Now, if you'll excuse me, I am going to go watch the color bars on channel 19 for a while...

Old, schmold! I did that by reaching across my body to pick up a saucer. I was in my 30's It felt like I had been stabbed in the back. It hurt for a month. I can imagine your pain and sympathize.

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 12, 2008

I got black spots on the negs, using HP5 and Tanol (Moersch)!...

gainer · Jun 12, 2008

I'm not familiar with Tanol. Does it use carbonate in the activator solution?

Dave Krueger · Jun 14, 2008

I tried the borax-NaOH version of solution B and it did not eliminate the clear spots in the negative with the black dot in the middle. It did reduce the problems with the dark spots in the negative, though. Areas of the negative with a uniform tone are very smooth relative to what I got with the original solution B. In any case, I am really scraping the bottom on this bottle of Pyrocat so there's no point in worrying about this batch anymore. I'm going to try the new bottle and see if I get the same problem. It would be nice to solve this, just to have an answer if nothing else.

What I want is a developer with an almost infinite shelf life, moderate grain, good accutance, cheap, works with high dilution, and allows for close to box speed with HP5+. Pyrocat seems to fit the bill except for this problem. Maybe the newer bottle will solve it. Is this the kind of problem that can come up because the developer is aging? The bottle was almost empty, which means it was exposed to a lot of air. On the other hand, it was still very active, so I'm inclined to believe it hadn't oxidized very much. As you might guess, I'm not much of an expert in this stuff.

Philippe Grunchec · Jun 15, 2008

Take a look at 'Question for Simon Galley'!

Dave Krueger · Jun 15, 2008

Well, I tried the "newer" (previously unused) batch of Pyrocat-HD (in glycol) with HP5+ (35mm) and got the same pin holes. In the tank at the same time, I had a short roll of TMY. No pin holes in the TMY.

Whatever the reason is for this, I don't plan to do anymore HP5+ in Pyrocat.

Just for the record, the "newer" Pyrocat is, in fact, 1.5 years old and was bought pre-mixed from PF. Obviously, most people report fine results with HP5+ in Pyrocat, so the problem must be at my end. Nonetheless, I don't like experimenting that much. Too time consuming.

I can't blame the HP5+ because I get great negs when I develop film from that same bulk roll in Rodinal.

Thanks for the suggestions and info.

Matus Kalisky · Aug 25, 2009

Waking up the old dragoon ...

I have just developed and HP5+ in Pyrocat HD (in Glycol) and got - as many previous poster those white spots with a tiny black hole on them.

As some time has passed since the last post - did any of you went deeper into this issue, or the HP5+ with the Pyrocat HD (from PF) remain just a wrong combination?

I would have liked to used HP5+ from time to time (as to stay closer to Ilford than Kodak ... oh well ...) but it seems that I may give the Tri-X a try if I want more grain.

I plan to stay with Pyrocat HD simply because I got used to it and (after learning not to overdevelop) like it.

Ian Grant · Aug 25, 2009

(there was a url link here which no longer exists).

Iron in various forms is used in water treatment, sometimes it gets into the water supply, rapid fixers react quickly to form a bleach which cause localised bleaching around the iron particle which is often weakly attached to the emulsion surface, so the bleaching doesn't happen behind it.

Reading back through a 1910 Agfa book they recommended all water used for photo chemistry should be allowed to stand to allow particles to fall out of suspension, a coffee filter would be better. Filter all your water first.

Ian

nworth · Aug 26, 2009

The answers regarding technique are all good and useful. Pinholes like that are usually tiny air bubbles. They can be caused by air coming out of solution during stand development or by trapped air when poring the developer or dunking the film. The initial agitation usually removes them. They could also be caused by a trace of residual acid in the tank reacting with the carbonate in the developer. Another possibility is dust. Small particles of dust can adhere tenaciously to film and cause pinholes. Be sure your camera is clean and that you load and process the film in a dust free area.

Matus Kalisky · Aug 26, 2009

- Ian -
thank you. I have read your answer. But as I have (with the same method and chemicals) already developed about 20 rolls of 3 or 4 different films without such problems, I guess it is not the quality of the water. Just yesterday I have developed two 120 FP4+ and all is fine.

- nworth -
If these are really bubbles, than for some reason they must be sticking strongly on the surface of the HP5+. There were some very interesting proposals in the past and I was just wondering whether some 'in the know' have managed to prove these or find another solution.

So - for the time being - I will stay away from the HP5+ as I do not wan to change the developers or induce another one.

erikg · Aug 26, 2009

Ian's answer seems a good one, except that I did encounter the issue using distilled water throughout. Still, water does seem a likely culprit. These are not really air bubbles, they are far too small and hard edged. Maybe I'll give it another go and see what happens.

Pinholes with 35mm HP5 from Pyrocat-HD?

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