Pick one Symmar-S: 300mm vs 360mm

[Dan Fromm]

commercial Ektars are in huge no. 5 shutter, need big lensboards, and are much lower contrast dialytes (6.3 version), with four airspaced elements and typically a single coating. Good color rendition but a much softer look, with a huge image circle. There is a rarer 4.5 Tessar version too, but it's not labeled "Commercial". Some of the 6.3 lenses were private labeled Caltar for Calumet and sell cheaper.

Drew, were you thinking of Wide Field Ektars, which are 4/4 double Gauss types? Commercial Ektars are all tessar types. See Dead Link Removed ; the data came from EKCo.

As for Caltar-branded Commercial Ektars, they were made by Ilex. The late H. Lynn Jones says he was the VP at Calumet who induced Ilex to make f/6.3 Commercial Ektar clones for Calumet. Clones, no the real thing. Calumet sold lenses made by Ilex, Komura, Rodenstock and Schneider (in alphabetical, not chronological, order) as Caltars.

 

[Alan Gales]

Thanks Drew! I thought that I read somewhere that Dagors were lower in contrast so they were really popular for b&w work. I own a 14" Commercial Ektar which I really like for portraits, especially. I also own a 250mm 6.7 Fuji which is a nice lens. It sounds like your Kern Dagor is more like my 19" Red Dot Artar?

 

[DREW WILEY]

Dan - think you better double-check your sources. Most (not all) Commercial Ektars were four-element, esp in that focal length. Ektars were
themselves made in several quality grades, with some private-labeled. At least that's what my late brother told me. He sold them. But I'm no
expert on those lenses myself. Check with Jim Galli. .... And Alan, the dagor design was made for the better part of a century, so had quite an
internal evolution in terms of glass types, shutters, coatings, and even available brands. The multicoated fourteen-inch Kern, marketed by
Schneider, was the last of them, with the exception of the current hyper-expensive XXL Schneiders for ULF use.

 

[Dan Fromm]

Dan - think you better double-check your sources. Most (not all) Commercial Ektars were four-element, esp in that focal length. Ektars were
themselves made in several quality grades, with some private-labeled. At least that's what my late brother told me. He sold them. But I'm no
expert on those lenses myself. Check with Jim Galli. .... And Alan, the dagor design was made for the better part of a century, so had quite an
internal evolution in terms of glass types, shutters, coatings, and even available brands. The multicoated fourteen-inch Kern, marketed by
Schneider, was the last of them, with the exception of the current hyper-expensive XXL Schneiders for ULF use.

Drew, have your memory checked. Tessars have four elements in three groups. EKCo's Commercial Ektars are f/6.3 tessar types. Here's my source, only slightly secondary: Dead Link Removed Visit it and see for yourself.

Perhaps your brother was telling you about Kodak Anastigmats. EKCo made a number of f/6.3 and f/7.7 dialyte type lenses engraved Kodak Anastigmat, including a 203/7.7 that was later engraved jes' plain Ektar. Ektar, not Commercial Ektar. If your brother is still alive and still of whole mind ask him to refresh your memory.

Where did you get the ideas that Ektars were made in different quality grades and that EKCo sold them private-labeled? Ektar is a trade name, meant "our best in that line."

About the last dagor type, when was the last Kern Dagor made? Boyer sold Beryls (some engraved Beryl S, others engraved Emeraude), their Dagor type, until the firm finally closed in 1982. You should be aware, though, that Eric Beltrando, who was a friend of Boyer's last owner, has told me that many of the lenses Boyer sold after his friend bought the company were assembled from elements that had been ground before he bought it.

 

[Alan Gales]

Yean, I have read that there was some sample variation in some of the early Dagors too.

I think one of the best things about large format is all the choices you have in lenses. It certainly make things interesting! I just wish I had the time and money to try them all out.