Physautotype

[Christopher Nisperos]

Anybody have any experience making physautotypes, Niepce's easy-to-make, non-toxic predecessor to the daguerreotype?

 

[Jerevan]

No, no experience, but I was curious enough to google to check what it is/was... Frances Scully Osterman and Mark Osterman seems to do it, and an institute, Paris Photographic Institute (Spéos?) holds a one-day course in doing the process, with Jean-Louis Mariginer who apparently has re-discovered this process.

 

[htmlguru4242]

There was a thread on this here awhile ago. It was apparently in a past issue of Photo Techniques; I think it was at the beginning of last year; search for it and you'll find it.



I'd actually be really interesting to see some info. about this process.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Since Christoper was the author (IIRC), he will have no trouble.

I'll ask Mark, next time I see him, but right now he is away on a trip.

PE

 

[Jerevan]

As little as I have been able to find of information on the 'net, it seems like it is silver plates coated with pine resin. Is this in some way made sensitive (with silver nitrate perhaps?), and developed with UV light?

EDIT: found some info in the earlier thread - but still want to know more...

 

[Photo Engineer]

I didn't look it up. Sorry, but I thought it involved asphalt or tar with solvents. In any event, Christopher wrote the Photo Techniques article referred to above. I'll have to dig it up. So many things to do and so little time.

Chris, if I can find more info in some of my very old texts, I'll e-mail you.

PE

 

[Fulvio]

I don't know if this is of any interest for you, but in "Coming into focus" is described a way do develop Daguerrotypes without poisonous mercury vapors... "Becquerel" developed daguerrotypes that is. Alexander Becquerel invented this variant in 1841. I'm not really into such advanced plate processes so I can't help, sorry.

 

[Christopher Nisperos]

I didn't look it up. Sorry, but I thought it involved asphalt or tar with solvents. In any event, Christopher wrote the Photo Techniques article referred to above. I'll have to dig it up. So many things to do and so little time. Chris, if I can find more info in some of my very old texts, I'll e-mail you. PE

Hi PE,

Yes, of course I do know how a physautotype is made (for anyone interested, go to the niepce.com website .. well worth snooping around in, if alt processes and photographic history are of interest to you...

THERE IS EVEN A 24 HOUR WEBCAM POINTED OUT THE VERY SAME WINDOW THROUGH WHICH THE FIRST KNOWN PHOTOGRAPH WAS TAKEN!
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A tiny bit about the physautotype (fizz-auto-type): it's generally easy*. First, you reduce some essential lavender oil to a residue*, then crush the residue and mix it with alcohol. After that, you coat the mixture onto a highly polished silver-plate sheet of metal and it evaporates to leave a coating of a kind of super-fine powder. It's ready for exposure. Exposure (in-camera exposure times are extremely long, ie: open the lens and go on vacation ... Jean-Louis "cheats" by exposing plates from a slide in a slide projector). "Development" is done by exposing the plate to the fumes of white petroleum. *The "hardest" part seems to be heating the lavender oil correctly to get the right quality of resin. Apparently it takes a little practice. Marignier says he might come out with a little kit, to save time and guarantee results. Again, take a look at the above link.. there are even step-by-step photos.

Essentially, I am just interested in finding someone (besides Jean-Louis Marignier himself) who is already playing with this process, as I intend to start dappling with it in the coming year. The images I've seen are gorgeous, delicate and super detailed, so I figure it would be a mistake not to at least try the process. Any other crazy fools interested in this, besides me? (and Niepce!)


.

 

[htmlguru4242]

That sounds interesting

Does it have to be coated onto a paper that is actually silver (Ag) metal, or can it be coated upon any mirror-polished surface? Because if it doesnt actually need silver, it'd be a relatively inexpensive process to run.

Its a wonder that there isn't more info. about this kind of stuff online.

 

[brucej]

here is my best physautotype contact print
its a negative of a negative
brucej
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[htmlguru4242]

Bruce, that's really nice. Can you give us some details about your process?

 

[brucej]

htmlguru
sorry i have been away
yes i can give some details, i will write it up in next few days,
the process itself is very easy, its done with lavender oil, it just takes a while to prepare to the point of making your first print, in the mean time here is a picture of my crude contact method
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[brucej]

this is the devoleped plate out of the frame, sorry its a bit out of focus
devoleped with household kerosene
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[Russ Young]

Howard Effner made a detailed presentation on this at APIS this past June.
Bostick & Sullivan carry his booklet.

Russ

 

[htmlguru4242]

Thanks, Bruce. I'd like to see the write-up when you get it done.

I love the contact printing frame, by the way

 

[Akki14]

So that's a piece of glass not a metal plate like earlier described... So is it just a shiny negative?

 

[brucej]

yes heather thats a glass plate, the negative was taken in the 1920's approx and just clamped as shown, you can see the square clamp pads.
i have tried other plates so far glass is easy to work with

Russ howards book is useing ashphalt and roisin which gives good results, and worth buying, but i am useing the residue of lavender oil distillation mixed with alcohol, painted on the glass, not silver as used by Niépce and Daguerre in 1832

 

[Akki14]

Ah I was just making it clear that this process doesn't need to have a certain metal as a base. I did a bit more googling and it sounds quite interesting.
Have you tried contact printing with a normal sheetfilm negative (or positive) yet? Or is it too tacky to do this without risking damaging the negative? I guess you could put a piece of plastic or mylar between the two, though. How much oil do you use to get your resin? I was considering just trying to simmer down a whole bottle of the stuff.
And when googling rosin, I found it's quite available for violins... I wonder if this is pure enough for this purpose though. It's all very interesting.

 

[brucej]

have i tried a normal sheetfilm negative (or positive) yet

NO


I guess you could put a piece of plastic or mylar between the two,

YOU HAVE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE UV WILL PASS


How much oil do you use to get your resin?

50ml OF PURE OIL MAKES ABOUT 1.5 GRAMMES, YOU ONLY NEED A 1% WEIGHT PER VOLUME MIX, 1 GRAMM IN 100 ML OF ALCOHOL , DID IT IN AN OIL BURNER OVER SEVERAL DAYS USEING 9 HOUR CANDLES

rosin, I found it's quite available for violins

IT SEEMS YOU MUST USE LUMP ROISIN

 

[brucej]

Well for whats its worth I have done a write up on my experiments with the phsautotype process below is a link, just click the thumbnails for bigger pictures,I hope it is of some interest, as its all experimental, and making camera's is new to me. sorry to take so long.
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