Photokina: Positive news for film

Misleading Policy of Maco

Aurelien said:

I understand that as : the emulsion is the APX 400 one, corated onto a Clear PET base.

The former Agfapan 400S was already a ordinar agfapan 400 emulsion coated on a bluish PET base, like another maco film, the maco 400 cube...

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If this film is an APX 400 recently coated on a clear, colourless PET base this will be good news for all APX lovers as they’ll get a better material (except for that light-piping effect).


But why does Maco give not only contradictory, but even wrong information as hinted by my reference to their datasheet?


Some time ago I called Maco here a most innovative company as they bring us materials otherwise not obtainable.

But the same time they are most innovative in spreading weird information.

Another example:
They once had a film called Scanfilm. A maskless C-41 colour film. Strange enough they called it as well a colour film as a B&W film. Strange enough untill one realizes that they most probably were referring to the fact that a maskless colour film is more easily printed on orthochromatic paper. But still this does not make it a chromogenic B&W film.

Then they announced to have a successor for the Scanfilm, called Digibase. However this film is called a B&W film to be processed as C-41. Thus a chromogenic B&W film to my understanding. However in a test posted on the net this film turned out to be maskless colour film. (Most probably the other maskless Agfa C-41 film.)

This information policy of them which makes any of their statements doubtful had as result that recently I even was publicly accused of knowingly spreading false information just for me quoting Maco’s webshop catalogue…

I consider this counterproductive for any effort to show that there still is a wide scope of film at offer.

I also doubt whether Agfa who are meanwhile referred to by Maco repeatedly welcome such a misleading policy as any bad surprise with a Rollei film turning out to be different than stated in a Maco datasheet could be erroneous blamed on them.

Dear AgX,

first: you have a pm with further information.

AgX said:

Some time ago I called Maco here a most innovative company as they bring us materials otherwise not obtainable.

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I think you are right. They are investing a lot in introducing these products to the market. So we as photographers have more alternatives and some unique products.
Kodak, Fuji, Agfa-Gevaert, Foma and Lucky are investing in R&D for improved products. Ilford has concentrated on keeping their full range of products available.
Different companies, different strategies. All in all we are profiting as customers.

AgX said:

Then they announced to have a successor for the Scanfilm, called Digibase. However this film is called a B&W film to be processed as C-41. Thus a chromogenic B&W film to my understanding. However in a test posted on the net this film turned out to be maskless colour film. (Most probably the other maskless Agfa C-41 film.)

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When Maco introduced this product, they were a bit uncertain which characteristics of this film they should emphasize. A maskless C-41 film is unique on the market. Therefore at the beginning the information was not optimal and needed improvement. Lots of photographers gave Maco hints and reported their experiences with this film. Due to that the information got more detailed and was improved.
Maco frankly admitted the mistakes in information policy being made at the beginning. This film with its different characteristics compared to other C-41 films was totally new for them as well, and they had to learn a lot about it.
Human beings make mistakes, so I think there is nothing really worth to complain about. They said "sorry", for me it is o.k.

But that is all off topic. Let's go back to this years Photokina.

Best regards,
Henning

Henning,

Thanks for the report. Good to see that the film vs digi wars are finally coming to a close, as well.

-J

Yes, but the bad news came yesterday from Bergger:
Mr Gerard told me: "I didn't decided yet to launch or not the production of films, because of the low level of the market, and the production minima that are too high..."

Seems like a "NO", no?

And I am very sad to loose my fetich BRF 200

Thank you for report Mr. Serger, it made me smile.

Fabulous report! Makes my heart and my cameras happy. Thanks for taking the time to post this.

Thanks for this report. New films , specially B and W are really good news for analogic users.

Hello Henning,

thank you very much for your excellent reports! Well done.

I visited Photokina, too, and my impressions were the same as yours.

Just to add, one Kodak representative told me, that their sales of 4x5" sheet film were increasing by about 40% last year (colour and BW).

Henning Serger said:

Dear apug members,

some of you asked me for further details about the filmtest results of Zeiss. They had problems to find these publications on the Zeiss website.
Here they are (all published in their magazine "camera lens news 17, 19, 20, 22, 24, and in their magazin "Innovation: Fotografie spezial"):

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_17e/$File/cln17e.pdf

http://www.zeiss.de/C12567A8003B8B6F/EmbedTitelIntern/CLN_19_en/$File/CLN19_en.pdf

http://www.zeiss.com/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/429a2f5d9151b60dc1256f2c0023b06b

http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/098729cea9ef2428c1257118005d1d20

http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/098729cea9ef2428c1257118005d1d20

http://www.zeiss.de/C12571FF0043275C
/0/7F4268A116C2BC66C1257210003FDFB0/$file/inno_photo_de.pdf

( page 10 + 11, article by Dr. Hubert Nasse, senior scientist and chief optic designer, and the pages about the Zeiss Ikon rangefinder camera)

http://www.zeiss.com/C12567A8003B58B9/Contents-Frame/2DFB31CE532E5E32C125711B0038D874

(furthermore please go to the "virtual tour of the lens production", and then to Foyer 06, "results of unparalled quality", there is an outstanding picture with the legendary Kodak Ektar 25)

Zeiss is clearly emphazising the qualities of film, especially it's superior resolution. Zeiss is the world's most important optic company. About 99% of their camera optics are made for digital cameras. But nevertheless they have the courage to tell the truth: film has higher resolution in most cases (of course dependant on the film you are using). If they make such strong statements, it is of greatest importance, because they are an absolute reliable source. Nearly no other optical company has such detailed knowledge, so deep scientific roots and scientific test methods. But their test results are a bit hidden on their website. Therfore I hope my links are helpful for you.

And as I have said before, my own test results clearly show the superior resolution of film as well. But probably you will trust Zeiss more than me (nevertheless I am working on a publication of my test results. Currently I am looking for a scan service with a drum scanner, which can manage resolution values higher than 140 Lp/mm).

…….....

Best regards,
Henning

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Thank you for the excellent links and detailed information.
By the way, some friends and me have done similar tests, and we can confirm your and Zeiss test results. If you need best resolution of fine details, without moirés and artefacts, you have to use film. It's the best choice for this purpose.

Kind regards,
Jana

I understand that as : the emulsion is the APX 400 one, corated onto a Clear PET base.

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Aurelien,

what makes you think this film is APX 400 ?

Best regards,

Mirko

Mirko,

In fact Hartmuth told me that just the film base was change. That 's why I deduced that emulsion was the same as retro 400, so far, the same as APX 400. But when I looked at the datasheets and in particular the spectral sentivity, I doubt...

Hi Mirko,

At the end of this thread

http://photo.net/black-and-white-photo-film-processing-forum/00R1tH

in a post marked "Oct 08, 2008; 03:24 p.m" Walter Ivens claims that plans to reintroduce APX films are cancelled. You previously posted here that bringing back the APX films would be a later project dependent on success of MCP and MCC papers. Please let us know whether Adox is simply waiting for those paper successes and the old APX stock to be sold or if a new decision has been reached to never pursue APX films. Thanks in advance for clarifying.

Aurelien said:

Mirko,

In fact Hartmuth told me that just the film base was change. That 's why I deduced that emulsion was the same as retro 400, so far, the same as APX 400. But when I looked at the datasheets and in particular the spectral sentivity, I doubt...

Click to expand...

There is an official and very clear statement from Maco that Rollei Retro 400S has not the APX 400 Emulsion. Retro 400S is a different film on PET base, with higher resolution and a different spectral sensivity.

Best regards,
Henning

APX 400

Sal,

I don´t know who Walter Ivenz is.
The APX project is not canceled at all.
In fact we had film to show with us at Photokina and whoever was interested could look at the results. We have recreated the base emulsion with identical curve shape, development times, resolution, and granularity but we still need to work on the spectral sensitization a bit (red/blue balance).

Currently there is still APX 400 35mm in the channel from the Agfa insolvency so we do not push this project.

We cannot make sheetfilm only. We need to have a market for 35mm, 120 and sheetfilm in order to justify the costs of scaling up the emulsion.

Based on my informations about old stocks we are looking at the first half of 2009 for this project to be lifted from research to production stage.

We feel that APX is a slightly better to control film than for example AVIPHOT PAN 400S PE1/PE0 under normal picture taking conditions (on the surface of the earth), especially in respect to curve shape in the midtones.
We also plan to keep it on triacetate.
This is why we feel there is room for the "good old APX 400" next to what others have.

Kind regards,

Mirko

JanaM said:

Hello Henning,

thank you very much for your excellent reports! Well done.

I visited Photokina, too, and my impressions were the same as yours.

Just to add, one Kodak representative told me, that their sales of 4x5" sheet film were increasing by about 40% last year (colour and BW).



Thank you for the excellent links and detailed information.
By the way, some friends and me have done similar tests, and we can confirm your and Zeiss test results. If you need best resolution of fine details, without moirés and artefacts, you have to use film. It's the best choice for this purpose.

Kind regards,
Jana

Click to expand...

Hi Jana,

thanks about the information concerning Kodak sheet film. My talks at Photokina with Kodak were concentrated on 35mm and 120 film.
Good news indeed.

And nice to hear that your photographers group achieved results in the same range like Zeiss (and me). And that my links to the Zeiss sources were welcome. I think it is very important nowadays (in the time of marketing hypes) to look at scientific sources and to make own tests on a scientifical basis.

Best regards,
Henning

Thanks Henning,

I was looking at the Photokina sight for additional film information -aside from Kodak-and found none.
I have posted this link to two other websites to help spread to word.

Just as new films are being introduce or in the mix, the banks have to go bust.

More good news

Hello,

there are some positive news to add. Last weekend a small, but very good photo fair took place in Münster, Germany ("Fotoforum Münster").
In Münster often the smaller, but very innovative German photo companies are presenting their products (film and digital). This was the case this year, too.

In Münster the photo engineering company SPUR (Speed Photography + Ultrahigh Resolution), http://www.spur-photo.com , introduced a new developer, SPUR HRX-3.

First of all, I think it is a good idea to introduce this company to you, because it's a unique company with unique products. They are the best experts for high resolution developers worldwide. No other company has such an experience.
They designed the SPUR Nanospeed developer for the Agfa Copex Rapid film and the SPUR Imagespeed for Kodak Imagelink.
Then they introduced the SPUR Orthopan UR film to the market (made by Agfa-Gevaert), with the dedicated SPUR Nanospeed UR developer. With this film developer combination Zeiss achieved the outstanding resolving power record of 400 Lp/mm.
Look at http://www.zeiss.de/c12567a8003b58b9/Contents-Frame/30536193ed0c97a7c125711c006fc2c2.
This film is also sold under the Adox Label (Adox CMS 20). The Adotech CMS developer is made by SPUR for Adox (Adox has no own production facility).
Last year SPUR designed the SPUR Technospeed developer for the new Rollei ATP film. This developer is now exclusively made for Rollei by SPUR and called Rollei ATP DC. The resolution values of this film developer combination are extremely high as well. A bit lower as with Orthopan UR/Nanospeed UR, but you get double sensivity with ATP (32-40 ASA).

SPUR has also some excellent developers for 'standard' panchromatic films and paper developers in their production programme. The now introduced HRX-3 film developer is the successor of HRX-2. HRX-2 is well-known for highest resolution and finest grain with T-Max, Acros and Delta films. One of the best developers for these films, due to my experience over the years. I've always got outstanding results.
With HRX-3 you even get higher resolution, finer grain, better detail contrast and more exposure latitude. And improved shelf life of two years (it's a liquid developer).

The German enlarger manufacturer Kienzle ( www.kienzle-phototechnik.de ) presented his new washer system for fibre base papers. He told me that they see new demand for enlargers from Scandinavia and the USA. Some schools and universities are building up darkrooms again, or invest in new and more solid equipment for the future (Kienzle enlargers are extremely solid, full metal construction). The last years were very hard, but now he is convinced it was the right decision to stay in business. He thinks the future looks better for his business.

Best regards,
Henning

It is nice to hear of these recent developments. Keep the good news coming!

Another dose of positive energy from Spain:

Agreed, the new Rollei ATP V1.1 is a great film, especially when considering that exposure values of up 100 ISO can be reached with the *right* developer (e.g. http://www.foto-r3.com/en/argenti-hi-tech-250ml.html-0). The use of tech-pan-type film for handheld photography is quite interesting to say the least.

Cheers,

Mirko,thanks for the interesting link , and the -fo rme-unusual jugedment for the Agfa-Gaevert Quality-film Avi Pan 400S "Made in Belgium"
which is used e.g. by the NATO as high definition avi-film.But what has this to do with the Agfa APX 400 "Made in Germany"?
Why you made the suggestion to replace the old APX400 through Avi Pan 400S?? As you can read in the Agfa Data-Sheet, the Pan 400s
is a completly different film-emulsion. The AVI Pan of course could be a good IR-Film, but not a sucessor of the APX400!
By the way, why would someone replace the APX 400?
In "goold old Germany" there is now offered a Agfa-Geavert Film, who is highly better, than the "new" APX 400.
Take a look at the Rollei Retro 400S ! The film - newly produced by Agfa-Gavaert -could be replace the APX 400. But he has nothing to do with the Avi-pan 400s.
In german speaking communities, this "replace" was tested an the users are highly impressed.
So, good bye APX 400 - welcome Retro 400S ! Soon in the US?
Kind regards
Walter

thank you so much. any chance of finding 100t or fuji 160NPL in 8 x 10 color size?

Dear Henning Segers, this is great news that you
bring, I am allowed to recount in my blog (http://jeanmarcdeconinck.blogspot.com/). I also mention your name
If you do want, let me know.

Jean-Marc

Excellent to read, thank you!
What formats are the new films by Kodak being supplied as?
Obviously 35mm but what about 120, 4x5, 8x10?

Kodak Ektar 100....

....is in stock at B&H. My order is on the way. I'm anxious to test out the new film. I wish it was also available in 120.

Fotogeorge said:

....is in stock at B&H. My order is on the way. I'm anxious to test out the new film. I wish it was also available in 120.

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Glad to hear Ektar 100 is in stock at B&H as I'm heading over there in a couple of hours anyway and will definitely pick it up. Even if I don't use it too much in the winter months, I'm excited to try it out and I'm hoping that strong sales in 35mm will prompt Kodak to try it out in 120, which would be simply amazing - although, if it's anything like the old Ektar 25, I do expect "120-like" results from it in 35mm.

Tim

Hello,

I've found another interesting article about this years Photokina from the perspective of a film photographer (Urs Bernhard).

Look here, "Photokina Impressions":

Dead Link Removed

Best regards,

Henning