Photokina 2012: Fuji Neopan 400 is back

Christiaan Phleger · Oct 3, 2012

From what I recall, the 120 size was dropped because of one component was super toxic and the use of it was banned in Japan, and its function in the 120 was to prevent static marks in cold dry conditions with the paper backing, probably in cameras with a motor drive. I'm not with all certainty absolutely positive that the 35mm and 120 were cut from the same master rolls, but I (me) think this is so, my ancient Fuji Datasheet on Neopan 400 does claim a special anti-static property. Fuji just may have more of the 35mm cut and less of the 120, and have been working to make the Neopan 400 emulsion updated while worldwide stocks of 35mm ran down.
FWIW, the Legacy Pro stocks I got last year (before they ran out) had a much older Fuji production code. I've been shooting Neopan consistently since the 90's so I could reference my own film. I think they cleaned out their film closet, the Fuji/Freestyle deals happen every so often, I recall back in 2000 or so they had a massive sale on real Neopan 400 in 100ft bulk, 18.99 for 100ft, which was half price. I bought at least 5 boxes of 20 100ft rolls over a year for my wedding photography business. I'm fairly certain that Fuji made a small change to Neopan at that time.

brianmquinn · Oct 3, 2012

RidingWaves said:
From what I recall, the 120 size was dropped because of one component was super toxic

Yeah, it was like the deadly SDS! Don't use the film it causes cancer!

perkeleellinen · Oct 4, 2012

That chemical was outlawed globally some years ago with a long lead in time to allow manufacturers to adapt. Fuji seemingly didn't and waited right up to the end before cutting the film.

subsole · Oct 5, 2012

RidingWaves said:
From what I recall, the 120 size was dropped because of one component was super toxic and the use of it was banned in Japan, and its function in the 120 was to prevent static marks in cold dry conditions with the paper backing, probably in cameras with a motor drive. I'm not with all certainty absolutely positive that the 35mm and 120 were cut from the same master rolls, but I (me) think this is so, my ancient Fuji Datasheet on Neopan 400 does claim a special anti-static property. Fuji just may have more of the 35mm cut and less of the 120, and have been working to make the Neopan 400 emulsion updated while worldwide stocks of 35mm ran down.
FWIW, the Legacy Pro stocks I got last year (before they ran out) had a much older Fuji production code. I've been shooting Neopan consistently since the 90's so I could reference my own film. I think they cleaned out their film closet, the Fuji/Freestyle deals happen every so often, I recall back in 2000 or so they had a massive sale on real Neopan 400 in 100ft bulk, 18.99 for 100ft, which was half price. I bought at least 5 boxes of 20 100ft rolls over a year for my wedding photography business. I'm fairly certain that Fuji made a small change to Neopan at that time.

But what is the difference between the paper backing of Neopan 400 and Neopan Acros?
Neopan Acros is still available in 120.

perkeleellinen · Oct 5, 2012

Acros doesn't contain perfluorooctane sulfonic acid I suppose.

Roger Cole · Oct 5, 2012

Bundesphotograph said:
But what is the difference between the paper backing of Neopan 400 and Neopan Acros?
Neopan Acros is still available in 120.

The paper backing had nothing to do with it. The ingredient was in the emulsion.

Henning Serger · Oct 5, 2012

Hello,

I know there has been some statements (speculation?) on the internet that the raw material problem only affected the 120 version (backing paper problem).
I don't know the source, and I don't know whether there has been an official statement from Fujifilm about that.

All I can say is the information I got at the Fujifilm booth from their responsible Product-& Key Account Manager, Photo Imaging Products Mr Boll:
He told me there was a problem with one raw material, which caused the production stop. When he told me that, he at least didn't referred it only to 120. It sounded like being a general emulsion problem affecting all formats. He said Fujifilm did some R&D to replace the problematic material and they have been successful, the problem is solved.
But we didn't go in further details about this topic (raw material problem) in our talk.

Neopan 400 (135) was visible both in the showcase and the brochures at their booth.
At Photokina some big European film distributors told me that they also have received direct information from Fujifilm, that Neopan 400 (135) will be available again this autumn.

All the information I have got at Photokina I've told you. Please have a look at my postings at the beginning on the first page.
I think it makes no sense to go deep in further speculation.
Those of you who like Neopan 400 can relax and be happy. Personally I prefer the Ilford and Kodak films in this ISO 400/27° BW segment, but I feel with you Neopan 400 fans and share your delight about the positive news.

Best regards,
Henning

pentaxuser · Oct 5, 2012

I am sure you are right about further speculation not getting us any nearer the answer as to whether 120 will be produced again but everything you have reported that Mr Boll said, strongly suggests that if the Fuji problem was solved then it has been solved for both 135 and 120 films

No wonder we are frustrated with the lack of clarity in the Fuji announcement. Had this been an Ilford announcement I am sure there would no need for speculation. It would be as clear as day what it meant

A pity

pentaxuser

Richard S. (rich815) · Oct 5, 2012

Neopan 400 in 35mm: It's good we're cured. But I didn't know we were sick either.

RattyMouse · Oct 7, 2012

Henning Serger said:
AFAIK currently only 135.
Probably Fujifilm is just a bit cautious. Looking how well the 135 is accepted. The responsible manager told me that they of course don't know really how much customers have already switched to other films and will stay there.
How big is the loyalty to the film. They have to wait and see. If the re-introduction is successful, maybe then 120 will follow.

If you want Neopan 120, then the best is shoot much of it in 135 to show there is demand, and simultaneously tell both your distributor and Fujifilm that you want this film also in 120 format.

Best regards,
Henning

Sort of hard to shoot 135 Neopan when one only has a 120 camera.

Helinophoto · Oct 8, 2012

Every logic thought around this, only makes sense if 120 is re-introduced as well.

In 120, they have only one b&w film (come on!), they are seriously lacking a 400 ISO alternative there, so just re-introducing it for 35mm would be a really weird decision, especially when you have the Lomo-crowd shooting a lot of 120 these days.
The same goes for large format as well;
I thought various formats had to to with cutting and packaging from a master roll, they don't have to make a huge master roll for 120 and large format (when they are on the roll, so to speak).

I did catch some talk on rangefinderforum about some issue about getting hold of fresh Neopan 400 in 35mm. Everyone seemed to get hold of the same exp. date in 2014 all over the world, so there was a rumor around there that Fuji might have pulled the plug on it in 35mm.
No confirmation though, just lots of nervous shooters wondering why no fresh batches of NP400 seemed to be available anywhere (even in Japan). The thread went on from 2011 into 2012.

I do shoot a lot of tri-x nowdays, but got hold of 10 rolls of 120 Neopan 400 on eBay and I shot one roll of each, back to back, during a lovely Sunday a couple of weeks back.
The Neopan has less grain and seem to have better resolution, but they are otherwise quite similar in contrast and also in tonal response, at least to my eyes (used HC-110 B for both).

If I had a choice, Neopan 400 120 all day long, but when I have no choice, like now, Tri-X is a really nice film and imo not too far away from NP400 in HC-110 B.....

Roger Cole · Oct 8, 2012

4x5 and 120 won't come off the same master roll as the film base is different. Sheet film is much thicker and stiffer.

Helinophoto · Nov 20, 2012

Just for information, Fuji Neopan 400 (135) is now available in the following European based (German) shops that I know of:

fotoimpex.de
nordfoto.de
macodirect.de

I don't think I've ever seen Neopan 400 on fotoimpex before, so it seems to be clear that this is the reintroduction coming into effect.

Still want it in 120 though.....beating myself up because I didn't buy a medium format camera before 2010 when it was cut :/

36cm2 · Nov 20, 2012

I've been around this place long enough to know how many "return of X film" wild goose chase threads there are, but this one is just killing me. All I want for Christmas is my Neopan 400 in 120. Bah humbug.

georg16nik · Nov 20, 2012

Thanks Helinophoto,
I too saw it available in fotoimpex.de recently.
Kudos to Fuji for bringing back Neopan 400 in 135.

36cm2 said:
I've been around this place long enough to know how many "return of X film" wild goose chase threads there are, but this one is just killing me. All I want for Christmas is my Neopan 400 in 120. Bah humbug.

Are You the "goose chase threads" police? or You just want to write something, not to read..?

36cm2 · Nov 20, 2012

georg16nik said:
Thanks Helinophoto,
I too saw it available in fotoimpex.de recently.
Kudos to Fuji for bringing back Neopan 400 in 135.

Are You the "goose chase threads" police? or You just want to write something, not to read..?

Georg16nik, I'm very happy that you can once again stock your trollhöhle with 135. I simply want Neopan 400 in 120 back. Several posts on this thread suggested 120 was back in production. I called B&H, Freestyle and Adorama and they all said they've heard nothing to that end.

pentaxuser · Nov 20, 2012

No, 120 is not back although the reasons given for the return of 135 suggests that there is now no longer any production reason why. Unfortunately our Photokina reporter was unable to find out why 120 has not been brought back. I can only assume it is due to commercial reasons

Very frustrating. All we want is simple answers to simple questions posed to the Fuji people in this case and all we seem able to rely on in terms of the "big three" is Ilford to respond with answers. Pity it can't deal with Fuji matters. It should offer its services to Fuji as PR consultants on how to treat customers better

pentaxuser

Helinophoto · Nov 20, 2012

pentaxuser said:
No, 120 is not back although the reasons given for the return of 135 suggests that there is now no longer any production reason why. Unfortunately our Photokina reporter was unable to find out why 120 has not been brought back. I can only assume it is due to commercial reasons

Very frustrating. All we want is simple answers to simple questions posed to the Fuji people in this case and all we seem able to rely on in terms of the "big three" is Ilford to respond with answers. Pity it can't deal with Fuji matters. It should offer its services to Fuji as PR consultants on how to treat customers better
pentaxuser

Indeed, Ilford really knows how to keep the masses well informed.

Love their papers too btw ^^

ME Super · Nov 20, 2012

Helinophoto said:
Indeed, Ilford really knows how to keep the masses well informed.

Love their papers too btw ^^

This is exactly why when I decided to attempt B&W again (I'm a color transparency shooter primarily) I bought Ilford rather than Kodak or Fuji. Ilford has kept the masses well informed, and Simon Galley even said he'd look into how feasible it would be to reintroduce a true IR film. To put it simply, Ilford/Harman listens to their customers. Kodak and Fuji would do well to hire better people to do their PR.

Henning Serger · Nov 25, 2012

pentaxuser said:
Unfortunately our Photokina reporter was unable to find out why 120 has not been brought back. I can only assume it is due to commercial reasons

Yes, economic reasons. The 35mm market is much bigger than the 120 market. And the re-introduction is not without risks. Because no one at Fuji exactly knows
- How loyal are the former Neopan 400 users to the film: Will they use it again?
- How much of the former Neopan 400 users have already switched to other films / brands? Will they come back?
- How much of new users / beginners will try the film?

Therefore they have to be cautious and minimize the risks. If the 35mm re-introduction will be a success, then they probably will think about 120, too.
If the re-introduction fails, well, no need to further think about 120.

Best regards,
Henning

pentaxuser · Nov 25, 2012

Thanks for that. Of course the 3 questions with their attendant risks that Fuji has to ask itself when considering 120 also applies to 35mm. The answers to the three questions you pose above might have been: "No", "no" and "none" and yet it has taken the chance of re-starting it in 35mm . I don't know the economics of re-starting the 35mm film but I do wonder whether a "let's wait and see" approach about starting the 120 makes sense.

It might have been sensible to re-start both together to send a message to Fuji users that Fuji was still into B&W film for the long term

I suspect that if Ilford had been faced with the same problem as Fuji and had then solved the issue concerning the banned material it would have re-launched both together.

Ilford had to rise like the mythical phoenix out of the ashes when it was bought out and there must have been a great temptation to re-start cautiously but it sent out a loud and clear message that it was committed and it seems to have worked.

pentaxuser

Richard S. (rich815) · Nov 25, 2012

Was it even definitively determined that 35m Neopan was actually officially "gone" in order to be be "back" or are we still just speculating?

Henning Serger · Nov 25, 2012

rich815 said:
Was it even definitively determined that 35m Neopan was actually officially "gone" in order to be be "back" or are we still just speculating?

As already explained here in the thread, the responsible Fujifilm Manager told me at Photokina that there has been a production stop. I think Fujifilm itself should know it....
And the film was definitely not available in some major markets for quite some time.
And now it is available again.

Best regards,
Henning

sandermarijn · Nov 27, 2012

Henning Serger said:
And the film was definitely not available in some major markets for quite some time. And now it is available again.

True for continental Europe as far as I know. Fortunately I had enough stock to bridge the gap.

It's my favourite film and I'm sooo happy

to see its return. Less happy with the pricing (paid 3.80 euros in June 2011 vs. 5.60 euros today), but I won't complain about that, unless I should want to complain about the world economy as a whole- rather a pointless act.

Thanks a lot to you Henning for providing us with so much accurate information on this and on other subjects. In the absence of manufacturers letting us know what they're up to (talking Fuji and Kodak, not Ilford, obviously), people in the know like you are a joy to have around.

Will you apply for a job at Fuji's film division and bring us back Neopan 400-120?

Sander

okto · Nov 27, 2012

rich815 said:
Was it even definitively determined that 35mm Neopan was actually officially "gone" in order to be be "back" or are we still just speculating?

B&H didn't have it. #goldstandard

Photokina 2012: Fuji Neopan 400 is back

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