Photograping a social event in a pub in B&W

Phormula · Mar 12, 2009

I apologize if this question has been posted before. I have been requested to take pictures of a social event that will take place in a pub/restaurant. I won't have the possibility to arrange formal shots, 99% of the pictures will be candid ones. My idea is to use B&W film (Rollei Retro 400s), my AF SRL (Nikon f100) and flash (SB 28), and a little overexposure because the place has white walls that tend to deceive the light meter. In order to improve the look of my pictures, should I have to consider using also a filter, I have no experience of people pictures with B&W, I shoot mainly slides and some B&W for landscapes. Thank you!

BWGirl · Mar 12, 2009

I'm not really skilled in this area, but I would think that you would not need a filter. What is the lighting like in the pub? Is there anyway you could go in prior to your event, shoot off a test roll & develop it to see what you need to do? If it's really dark in there, you may have to push the film.
(When I first read the title of your thread, I thought it was an invite!)

BobNewYork · Mar 12, 2009

BWGirl said:
.......(When I first read the title of your thread, I thought it was an invite!)

Me too - I just packed my bags

ISO 400 with flash should be fine. For this the F100 in program with the SB in matrix mode will work wonders. you may want to consider some 3200 as well though. without the flash this could provide some interesting, moody candids.

Bob H

Fotoguy20d · Mar 12, 2009

BWGirl said:
(When I first read the title of your thread, I thought it was an invite!)

Ditto. So, who's going to set up the NYC pub social?

Dan

BobNewYork · Mar 12, 2009

Conway's, 7 o'clock works for me!!

Cheryl Jacobs · Mar 12, 2009

Phormula, if it helps, you might take a look at my last several postings in the standard gallery. They were all shot with available light in my local tavern. I'm not sure whether you're shooting during daylight or at night, but either way, creative use of the light you're dealt can add a lot of atmosphere to the shots. Don't hesitate to push your film if you need to. I personally prefer Tri-X for these sorts of situations because it's a very versatile film that can handle just about anything you need.

- CJ

SuzanneR · Mar 12, 2009

I edited the title of the thread for clarity. I thought it was an invitation, too!

If you have to use flash, it's always good to get a bracket to get the flash higher above the lens. Makes for more flattering light on faces. If there is any ambient light, as Cheryl says, it can be used. Tri-x is good for pushing, but if the light is too low, Delta 3200 or Tmax 3200 are great films for such places.

Good luck.

Christopher Walrath · Mar 12, 2009

This could take some space.

The guide number for your flash with a normal lens, 100 ISO and full output on the SB28 is 42 meters.
The guide number for your flash with a normal lens, 100 ISO and 1/2 output on the SB28 is 30 meters.

To use this info you need to do some math ahead of time.

Av = gn / fsd where Av = aperture, gn = your flash's guide number and fsd = flash-to-subject distance.

Let's say you use full output. With a normal focal length (for 35mm, 50mm focal length lens) and 100 ISO film your flash-to subject distance can be determined for each aperture.

If your subject is three meters away, the aperture you would use to correctly expose a subject at that distance would be

Av = 42 / 3
Av = 14 (round to 16 as closest normal aperture setting).

See how you do it? If you want to account for a different focal length just throw in this modifier for you math.

Av = (gn / fsd) (nf / f) where nf = focal length of a noraml lens for the format being used and f = focal length of lens actually being used.

If you want to account for a different film speed from 100 ISO, double your figures for each increment of ISO going slower (50, . . .) and halve your figures for each increment of ISO going faster (200, . . .).

A lot to chew on but I hope this helps rather than stirs up the muck even more.

Phormula · Mar 12, 2009

Thank you guys, you are fantastic!
I am no professional and it is the first time I shoot B&W in such a location. I want to give my friends an example of analog photography they will remember... not the usual digital snapshots . Last time I did a similar thing in the office, a lot of the pictures ended up enlarged and framing on the walls.
After much wandering in the net, I believe I found the right place for my hobby (including Creative Image Maker Magazine, as well )

BobNewYork · Mar 12, 2009

If you're using the F100 with the SB 28 my honest advice would be to use the programme mode on the camera and the matrix metering on the SB 28 - not the balanced fill, the regular matrix. If you want to use the flash off camera then all bets are off unless you have the Nikon dedicated cord, in which case all bets are back on again!!!

Bob H

BWGirl · Mar 12, 2009

Phormula said:
Thank you guys, you are fantastic!
I am no professional and it is the first time I shoot B&W in such a location. I want to give my friends an example of analog photography they will remember... not the usual digital snapshots . Last time I did a similar thing in the office, a lot of the pictures ended up enlarged and framing on the walls.
After much wandering in the net, I believe I found the right place for my hobby (including Creative Image Maker Magazine, as well )

You certainly have found the right place!

mabman · Mar 12, 2009

What's not mentioned is if the film will be self-developed or sent to a lab. Many labs have a preferred or optimal combo of films and ISOs shot at that they're most familiar with, so if it's going to a lab it might be a good idea to check with them first.

If self-developing, and especially if you want to use a flexible film like Tri-X and not use the flash for a while (eg, push it several stops), you may consider stand or semi-stand development and develop the film to completion (such as Rodinal 1:200 for 2 hrs.). Depending on metering, you can push Tri-X to 3200, 6400, or even 12,800 if desperate this way.

Also, re: filtering, usually you lose a couple of stops, which at least may make composition more difficult and at worst may affect metering and/or the AF (if it's TTL, I have no idea with the Nikons if it actually is or not). However, if you want to give it a shot you can get interesting skin-blemish-reducing effects with many B&W films and a light red filter. I've tried it, unfortunately I haven't developed the film yet to see if I like it Composing indoors with an SLR and a manual focus lens was definitely a challenge, though.

tim elder · Mar 12, 2009

Don't worry about it too much. Nikon's are very well-known for their excellent flash metering system and you'll do very well. A nice thing might be to use some kind of diffuser on the flash and if the ceilings are white as well as the wall, you might be able to create some nice bounced light from your flash.

One thing you might want to look out for and try to avoid is seeing your flash reflected off the white walls. Also, like other posters have mentioned, I would consider pushing a roll of film if there's enough light. But I think people will also be expecting candid flash shots and you should deliver.

Tim

PhotoJim · Mar 12, 2009

Consider trying some natural light, too, definitely. Use a fast prime (a 35/2 or 50/1.4 would work really well, if you have either or both). You might need faster film than 400 to pull it off, but you'll get nice detailed backgrounds. Flash tends to make the backgrounds go very dark.

mike c · Mar 12, 2009

Hi Phormula, when I was shooting weddings we taped a white index card to the top of the flash head so it stuck out about 3 to 5 in. Then pointed the head straight up towards the ceiling. The card reflected lite into the face of the subject and the majority of lite bounced of of the white ceiling and walls. This created a very natural and much softer lite than direct flash. We used norman 250 b strobes, quite powerful but at 1/4 power, about 50 60 watt seconds. You need a lite colored ceiling, the height of ceiling also is important. Try it out some where to practice , the angle you point your flash is important . Once you'v got it down its very useful. Mike
if you need to put some ones head on a champagne bottle label let me know.(Bill Stockwell live's)!!!!

markbarendt · Mar 13, 2009

Phormula said:
My idea is to use B&W film (Rollei Retro 400s), my AF SRL (Nikon f100) and flash (SB 28),

The faster the film (or the EI if you are pushing) the less light you'll need to add with the flash. This will make the scene look more natural.

Since the SB-28 has a built in bounce card and a rotating head I'd use that a lot. Straight up is a big improvement over straight on. Bouncing it in a more directional manner takes the lighting up another level altogether. It's kinda like playing pool though, you gotta figure out how to bank it for every shot.

The cool thing is that the TTL or A modes will adjust the flash for you regardless of which way you point the strobe's head.

Phormula said:
and a little overexposure because the place has white walls that tend to deceive the light meter.

I don't know if I'd overexpose beyond what you normally rate the film at, the challenge is more one of exposure setup than a film rating issue.

What intentional over exposure does is to add to your dependence on the flash.

This is the "snap-shot" flash problem, the subject is lit fine but the rest of the shot is nearly black. Bounce the light really helps but unless you have some nice high ceilings that won't solve the problem at the pub.

Phormula said:
In order to improve the look of my pictures, should I have to consider using also a filter, I have no experience of people pictures with B&W, I shoot mainly slides and some B&W for landscapes. Thank you!

I would not add a filter with B&W.

Christopher Walrath · Mar 13, 2009

And one more piece of advice. If you intend to dabble with some natural light photography you'll probably run into some slow shutter speeds. Take a smallish tripod with you and get there ahead of time, ask if there is somewhere handy you can stash it so it doesn't hinder your flash photography.

Good luck.

Phormula · Mar 13, 2009

Thanks to everybody, I will go to the place over the weekend with a hand light meter and evaluate all the possibilities according to your valuable input. I will also stop at the lab and ask them about pushing film. Then I will be ready for action next week.

Phormula · Mar 18, 2009

OK, the job is done and the films are at the lab, thanks to everybody for the valuable input. The scouting trip proved essential, the place had white reflecting walls and a black ceiling, so bounce flash was out of the question and a trial with a pocket digital camera showed that the reflective walls were likely to fool the meter into underexposure. This suggested me to give a little overexposure. Now the job is done and I am experiencing this mixed feeling of panic (did I do the things right?), excitement and fear that everybody has experience in between shooting the film and getting the developed stuff from the lab.

markbarendt · Mar 18, 2009

Savor the moment.

Phormula · Mar 29, 2009

Pictures back from the lab. They did an excellent job (this is the main reason why I didn't set up my own darkroom, the other is that I don't do that much B&W). The pictures had the "dolcevita" B&W look that I was looking after and people got really impressed, I have a list of reprints and enlargements to do now... thank you for the useful advice.

BobNewYork · Mar 29, 2009

Good for you! We always have some apprehension over new assignments - but there's nothing like the pat on the back when it all works out so well.

So when is your next assignment so we can all get involved again!!

Bob H

Photograping a social event in a pub in B&W

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