Photography Formulary Liquidol vs Moersch SE6

cirwin2010 · Nov 9, 2021

In a way this is a bit of a sequel to my previous thread on Ilford Cooltone paper. In short I am looking into how I might be able to maximize the coolness of my images on other papers short of using expensive gold toner.

I am currently using Liquidol paper developer and overall it has been serving me pretty well. It has a long working life where I can re-bottle and re-use the developer for months (depending on frequency of use and the amount I mix up).

I am curious about Moersch SE6 Blue Paper Developer and am thinking about giving it a try. Supposedly it will give a more blue/black appearance to prints than some other developers. Where I am a little uncertain is I have seen Liquidol referred to as a cool tone developer. I haven't tried other paper developers (other than lith developers) so I can't really validate that. I personally wouldn't call Liquidol's results "cool" out of the box. Some of my papers will "cool off" in selenium toner, removing the green tint and looking farm more neutral/cooler in appearance.

Would Moersch SE6 yield a cooler image than Liquidol? How does it respond to selenium? I wanted other's options on it before spending $30 on a bottle.

Sebastian Bille · Nov 9, 2021

I haven't tried SE6 myself, but on his website he has a gallery where he shows the results for Ilford Cooltone paper: https://www.moersch-photochemie.de/content/galerie/se6blue

Maybe you get an idea by comparing it to your Liquidol results.

In the text above he says you should use finisher blue, if you are looking for even cooler tones.

-Sebastian

Alan9940 · Nov 9, 2021

It's my understanding that Liquidol was formulated to be very close in overall tonal characteristics to Dektol. Personally, I wouldn't call either developer a cool tone developer. You might want to take a look at Sprint Paper developer. I wouldn't call the results from this formula cool (as in blue(ish) color), but it's definitely cooler in tone than something like Dektol. Also, adding a bit of benzotriazole to the paper developer will cool down the tone a bit, too.

cirwin2010 · Nov 9, 2021

michael_r said:
Liquidol was formulated to essentially duplicate the image characteristics of Kodak Dektol, which is a neutral tone developer.

If you want cooler tones than a standard developer such as Dektol, Moersch is really the only option. However even with the Moersch products below, note that the biggest differences in image colour happen on warm tone papers, with neutral papers showing less change, and cold tone papers the least.

SE3 will be subtly cooler than Dektol, Liquidol etc, but may or may not have an effect on Ilford Cooltone paper
SE6 has a significantly stronger cooling effect tending toward blue-black, but again may or may not have a pronounced effect on Ilford Cooltone paper
Finisher Blue (Moersch) is a PMT-based additive which you can add to any developer in incremental amounts to get cooling effects ranging from subtle all the way to blue-black shifts depending on how much you add. You can add it to Liquidol or any other general purpose developer.

SE6 and/or Finisher Blue are really the only products that are likely to have any appreciable effect on a paper such as Ilford Cooltone which is already a cold tone paper. Light selenium toning can potentially help slightly. If none of that makes the paper blue-black enough for you, you're left with gold toning, but even that will tend to have stronger effects on warm papers than cold papers.

Thanks for the input. I should have mentioned before that I would want to use this on paper other than Ilford Cooltone.

I have seen people mention using SE6 on warmtone paper. Wouldn't that have a split tone like effect on the image due to the warm base of the paper remaining causing cool shadows and warm highlights? I wonder how that would look compared to a sepia split tone image.

Kino · Nov 9, 2021

You might want to try Ethol LPD at 1:1 dilution; it produces very cool tones on paper at lower dilutions and warmer tones at higher (1:4).

The old Department of Photography and Cinema at Ohio State University used this print developer exclusively (until disbanded) and it was an excellent print developer with a lot of flexibility in one solution.

If you decide to try it, get the powder; avoid paying for shipping water!

MattKing · Nov 10, 2021

Kino said:
You might want to try Ethol LPD at 1:1 dilution; it produces very cool tones on paper at lower dilutions and warmer tones at higher (1:4).

The old Department of Photography and Cinema at Ohio State University used this print developer exclusively (until disbanded) and it was an excellent print developer with a lot of flexibility in one solution.

If you decide to try it, get the powder; avoid paying for shipping water!

Unfortunately, Ethol LPD in powder form has been unobtainable for a long time.
Freestyle is predicting availability on December 31st, but that is just the latest in a lot of dates.
Adorama just says that it is on backorder.
B & H says backorder as well, and they won't ship it even if they had it.
I haven't seen any on this side of the border for a long time.

Paul Howell · Nov 10, 2021

I've used Clayton cool tone developer, will last as long Liquidol, but not to expensive to use when you want to print cool tone papers. Freestyle carries it.

https://www.freestylephoto.biz/36172-Clayton-Ultra-Cold-Tone-Paper-Developer-1-Quart

Kino · Nov 10, 2021

MattKing said:
Unfortunately, Ethol LPD in powder form has been unobtainable for a long time.
Freestyle is predicting availability on December 31st, but that is just the latest in a lot of dates.
Adorama just says that it is on backorder.
B & H says backorder as well, and they won't ship it even if they had it.
I haven't seen any on this side of the border for a long time.

Take this with a grain of salt, as I have not confirmed this to be true, but Omega/Brandess has it in stock (according to their web page);
https://omegabrandess.com/shop/paper-developer-powder-gallon/
$23.88 USD per gallon is pretty steep, but the stuff lasts a long time and can be replenished if you desire...

Photography Formulary Liquidol vs Moersch SE6

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