Photographs or Images?

Jorge · May 6, 2004

Sean said:
jdef said:

There are many kinds of images, a subset of which are photographic images, or photographs, and another subset includes digital images. I don't see anything nefarious in referring to a digital image as an image, or anything pretentious about referring to a photograph as an image. After all the area inside the borders is commonly referred to as the image area of a print, or photograph. Maybe you're making something out of nothing.

Click to expand...

I guess I keep finding words in the digital arena are being redefined at their convenience. Get ready for the new epson "gelatin" papers and "silver" inksets that will be called, you got it -> "silver gelatin" prints..

Too late Sean, remember digital "platinum" prints? It used to really bug me to see all the contortions and the lengths to which digitoheads go to make their work more acceptable, the word "image" is just another attempt to do this. They have tried glicèe, carbon pigment, etc.

Unlike Michael I dont see anything wrong with using the word image interchangeably with photograph, the funny thing is that in spanish we have been doing it a long time, before digital was even on the horizon. "Imagen" is a much simpler word than "fotografia", and print does not translate well in spanish, so people who are trying to sell and show their work many times call their photographs images, for the sake of simplicity.

It has been a few years since this debate started and since then I have learned a few things. Despite the claim from digitoheads that the "image" is everything and the process does not matter, go to a gallery, any good gallery and digital is nowhere to be seen with exception of a few who are doing Fuji crystal archive. Seems that for all their efforts and bombardment the public is not easily fooled and quality still matters.

blansky · May 6, 2004

In photography we used the word image transfer for years. It is not necessarily a "digital" word.

I use the word image occasionally but generally use the word photograph. Never photo. I cringe when someone calls them photos.

Like when someone writes music and some idiot calls them tunes.

The word I have a hard time with is "capture". Someone sees a picture and calls it a nice capture. Hey dude nice capture.

This language thing is a kick in the pants.

You say potato and I say potaaato. You say tomato and I say tomaaaato.

Lets call the whole thing off.

Michael McBlane

Donald Miller · May 6, 2004

Language is the very imprecise attempt to transmit experience through sounds. It makes no difference whether they are written or uttered.

This whole matter is akin to arguing about the color of the fire engine that hauled my butt out of my burning house.

Donald Miller

Les McLean · May 6, 2004

I'm with Cheryl and Blansky. I've always used image rather than photograph probably because in my formative years as a photographer I worked with three British photographers, John Blakemore and Paul Hill and the late Raymond Moore, who used the term. IMO these guys changed the face of British photography and if it was good enough for them it's certainly good enough for me. In any event I think that we are all blowing a lot of hot air a when we should be spending more time thinking about and making more images, photographs, pictures da de da de da.............

Now there's a thought, do we take or make a photograph.....says he with a mischevious glint in his eye.

Cheryl Jacobs · May 6, 2004

I don't intend to put words in to your mouth, but I will stand by what I said earlier. It fits your description. You offer a pretense or claim -- 'my pictures are not snap shots' -- by using the word image, which you seem to view as having a better connotation than photo.

So, Mr. Callow, you see no negative connotation to the word 'pretense'? Most people do, I think.

Mr. Smith, I also know plenty of photographers, all genres, and very few of them fully speak the word 'photograph.' If I were to continually say 'photograph' in conversation with my clients, they'd think I was an art snob.

I'm curious as to whether those who insist on 'photographs' and turn their noses up at the word 'images' also insist on the superiority of the terms 'automobile', 'horseless carriage', 'permanent wave', and 'bathing costume.'

Francesco · May 6, 2004

I take a "shot" and then I make a photograph. Sometimes I like to say that I "realise" an image on paper - makes me feel like it is not only up to me but SOMEONE else.

David A. Goldfarb · May 6, 2004

Take? Make? Capture!

I'm with Blansky on that one. "Capture" is just obnoxious. You hear it a lot in wildlife photography circles though, because there is an element of "capture" in getting a good image/photograph/shot of a moving subject over which you have no control.

Hey how about "shot"? Sounds violent and unpleasant, no? Do you "click," "snap," "press," "release," or "fire" the shutter?

"Pic"--I can do without that one, as well as its plural, "pix."

I guess you take shots, and every once in a while, one hits.

Ole · May 6, 2004

Interesting discussion, this...

Loosely translated from Norwegian, I feel that I take pictures, make photographs, and sometimes aspire to images.

A picture is a "capture" - the raw image on the film/negative. From this a make a print, which is when I'll consider calling it a photograph. Some of them are good enough that they work as images - but most are not.

A "photo" could be anything - sort of like a generic term for any kind of optical capture recorded on a light-sensitive medium and reproduced on something flattish (paper, CRT, LCD, VDU...).

Aggie · May 6, 2004

It's semantics! Does it really matter which you use for your circumstances?

Sean · May 6, 2004

I might start calling my negs "pregnants" and the prints "babies"..

Cheryl Jacobs · May 6, 2004

LMAO, Sean!!

jd callow · May 6, 2004

I think capture originated with video capture cards. 20 years ago for a couple grand you could buy these cards, plug your VHS, SVHS or Beta into the back of them and 'capture' the video. The cheap ones captured only a frame the good ones could capture a sequence and the really good ones had good play back.

I had one in the mid to late 80's. It had a staggering 2meg's of on board memory and a dedicated CPU. The card would get so hot I would have to blow it with an airhose to keep it cool when ever I used it. It cost about 1,200.00 and could record and display 24bit images at a resolution 512 by 300 and something.

Cheryl, I honestly believe you have mis understood me from the get go. The question you ask "Mr. Callow, you see no negative connotation to the word 'pretense'?" Is not material to what I was saying. Having a word in a sentence that is usually used in a disparaging way does not make the sentence I wrote or its meaning automatically disparaging. Quite the opposite, I was supporting your argument. I will try once more.
Using the word image because it may give the the listener some guidance as to how to view your work may not be wrong. I didn't use pretense, and I belive it has the same meaning as before.

Aggie · May 6, 2004

Hell I call my Mamiya my baby. Every once in a while she gives birth. does that make me a grandmother?

Cheryl Jacobs · May 6, 2004

Mr. Callow, I really haven't misunderstood you. I honestly do understand what you're saying. I catch on quick. I simply disliked, and still dislike, the use of the word 'pretense.' Ain't nothin' more to it than that.

jd callow · May 6, 2004

Cheryl Jacobs said:
Mr. Callow, I really haven't misunderstood you. I honestly do understand what you're saying. I catch on quick. I simply disliked, and still dislike, the use of the word 'pretense.' Ain't nothin' more to it than that.

Your kidding?!

So what you are saying is: 'Mr Callow it isn't enough that you agree with me you have to use words I find acceptable.'

Wow!

mark · May 6, 2004

Aggie, the answer is yes.

If I can be having an affair with my 5x7(the wife's last poke at me when I headed out the door with bag on back and tripod in hand) then you can be a grandmother.

Cheryl Jacobs · May 6, 2004

Yeah, that's what I'm sayin'. Everybody's gotta agree with me, and I'm not happy unless I supply the words for them. I also want to reign supreme over syntax and tone.

blansky · May 6, 2004

Aggie said:

Hell I call my Mamiya my baby. Every once in a while she gives birth. does that make me a grandmother?

Aggie, I'm sure the pictures are great so that makes you a great grandmother.

Michael

happysnapper · May 6, 2004

One word here:

Imagraph.

Say no more, say no more.

blansky · May 6, 2004

Isn't "taking a picture" when you go to a gallery and when no one is looking and walk out the door with it.

If the neg is a pregnant and the print is a baby does that make light a sperm and dark an egg.

I think if I ever said "I realize an image", I'd hope I'd realize that I was full of shit. (disclaimer: this is just me not anyone else)

Ain't language great.

The old line, Britain and US two nations divided by a common language.

So there I was walking down the street and lo and behold, before me was the most perfect image I'd ever seen. I whipped out my trusty Deardorff and fired off a few shots and I just knew I'd gotten the perfect capture. I hurried back to my darkroom to realize the image. Unfortunately at the time what I didn't realize was that I had no film in the holders. This is the perfect scenario of a capture and release.

Michael

Francesco · May 6, 2004

Garbage in, Garbage out as they say.

bjorke · May 6, 2004

SNAPS

That's what I call 'em. Or "picture," when I mean a specific, usually physical, object.

"Image" and "photograph" both seem overburdened and gassy to me.

Thilo Schmid · May 7, 2004

To me, a Photograph is an Image taken with a camera. A Painting is an Image created with a brush. And so on. "Image" is simply a more abstract term. In the context of photography, it is usually easy to distinguish between the abstract and the concrete meaning. As long as everybody is aware of the context, I see nothing reprehensible in using the term "Image".

dr bob · May 7, 2004

Photograph? Digital image (finger painting)? Silver image?

Frankly Scarlett....

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