Photographing Commercial Caverns

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

Tomorrow night (7/16/14) I have the opportunity to go and take some photos in a commercial cavern (they do a 3 hour monthly photo tour) and I'm looking for advice.

I planned on bring my Bronica SQ Ai w/ 40mm & 80mm lenses, tripod, shutter release and of course a light meter. As for films I was thinking about Tri-x and Acros 100. Any other suggestions? Anything special I should know?

Thanks,

Matt

bsdunek · Jul 15, 2014

From my experience, even with lighting, it's pretty dim in most caverns. Certainly ISO 400 or higher film and if they will let you use it, a tripod. Another consideration is some color film. Some of the formations in caverns are quite colorful.

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

I don't shoot much color film (my Ektar has been in the freezer for a year and a half) but that's a good idea. Just wish I had some 400 speed color. Maybe I'll order a few rolls from B&H. The website says " A guide will escort you into the cave where you will then have the opportunity to wander the cave with your camera and tripod (sorry, no video cameras allowed) at your leisure for three hours!" so I'm good there. Would be hard w/o a tripod I'd think.

BrianShaw · Jul 15, 2014

Having shot a lot in mines... realize that it is more difficult than you may imagine... even if they have it artificially lit. Use the fastest film you have. The Acros will be impossible to work with for anything but a long time exposure. As Bruce mentioned, seriously consider fast color film too. My additional suggestion: bring an electronic flash so you are not totally disappointed. Enjoy and have fun!

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

BrianShaw said:
Having shot a lot in mines... realize that it is more difficult than you may imagine... even if they have it artificially lit. Use the fastest film you have. The Acros will be impossible to work with for anything but a long time exposure. As Bruce mentioned, seriously consider fast color film too. My additional suggestion: bring an electronic flash so you are not totally disappointed. Enjoy and have fun!

I was thinking about the Acros because of the long exposures and figured since it's good with reciprocity that it would be a good choice. I also have a few rolls of Delta 3200 I plan to take.

The flash is a really good idea. I should have thought of that.

What would be a good choice of color film?

BrianShaw · Jul 15, 2014

Portra 400 would be my choice.

BrianShaw · Jul 15, 2014

p.s. You'll probably find that doing smaller detailed shots easier than trying to do large "landscape" images. How big are these caverns anyway... and where in upperNY are they?

I shot workplace documentation in Gouveneur area potash mines... two winters in a row. That was an experience that remains in my heart and mind. Being underground was a LOT nicer than being on the surface at times.

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

BrianShaw said:
p.s. You'll probably find that doing smaller detailed shots easier than trying to do large "landscape" images. How big are these caverns anyway... and where in upperNY are they?

I shot workplace documentation in Gouveneur area potash mines... two winters in a row. That was an experience that remains in my heart and mind. Being underground was a LOT nicer than being on the surface at times.

It's been a long times since I've been there (20+ years) but from what I'm told they are pretty good sized. It's at Hows Caverns http://www.howecaverns.com/.

It sounds like an experience. I've been into a couple of the mines / caverns that allow tours on the east coast and for me it's always an experience. This however will be my first times experiencing it with a camera in tow.

jspillane · Jul 15, 2014

I'd consider a short-tele lens as well, depending on the cavern size. If they let you, a speed light + bracket or stand would also be useful.
My choices filmwise would be Acros 100 (for the aforementioned long exposure characteristics), and Ektar 100 (if you calculate correctly it holds up well to long exposures without too much color shift. If you under expose it goes cyan, though). I feel like, if you are shooting a static subject with a tripod, 400 speed doesn't offer much benefit. Even if the cave is lit, you'd probably have to push at least to 1600/3200 if you are shooting handheld-- might be fun to bring a few rolls of Delta 3200 along.

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

jspillane said:
I'd consider a short-tele lens as well, depending on the cavern size. ............... Ektar 100 (if you calculate correctly it holds up well to long exposures without too much color shift. If you under expose it goes cyan, though)..

Unfortunately the only other lens i have for my Bronica is a 250mm. Maybe I'll take it too.

I guess I have to pull the data sheet for Ektar and take a look. Same goes with the Portra BrianShaw suggested.

paul_c5x4 · Jul 15, 2014

Suggestion: Fire a flash from behind a formation. Some of them will fluoresce quite spectacularly, and you often get a range of different colours showing through.

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

paul_c5x4 said:
Suggestion: Fire a flash from behind a formation. Some of them will fluoresce quite spectacularly, and you often get a range of different colours showing through.

Thanks. I'll have to give that a try.

Whiteymorange · Jul 15, 2014

You might want to try painting with light; moving around and flashing areas in the photo while leaving the shutter open. Don't know how it would work, but it has always intrigued me as a possibility in very dark spaces. I have seen some wonderful work done that way.

DREW WILEY · Jul 15, 2014

Unless you're using flash, it's hard to know exactly what kind of lighting you'll encounter and how your film will react to it. I'd go with the previous suggestion of having ACROS and Delta 3200 on hand, and forget the Tri-X. Everything depends on whether or not you'll be able to use
a tripod. Pity if you can't. A nice accessory to have is a little laser pointer, because it's a lot easier to focus on a laser spot in some dark recess
than guessing what's in focus through your viewfinder. Color-film -wise, hard to say unless you get a practice round and review the results.
But just winging it, I'd opt for Portra 400.

jspillane · Jul 15, 2014

MrBrowning said:
Unfortunately the only other lens i have for my Bronica is a 250mm.

I'd guess that a 250 would be hard to work with in a cave... although could be good to get some detail shots. The real beast will be composing and focusing with it in a dark space. The suggestion of a laser pointer is a really good one, I'll have to try that myself.

MrBrowning · Jul 15, 2014

Whiteymorange said:
You might want to try painting with light; moving around and flashing areas in the photo while leaving the shutter open. Don't know how it would work, but it has always intrigued me as a possibility in very dark spaces. I have seen some wonderful work done that way.

I've done some painting with light i the past with good results. I'l have to dig out my good flashlight.

DREW WILEY said:
Unless you're using flash, it's hard to know exactly what kind of lighting you'll encounter and how your film will react to it. I'd go with the previous suggestion of having ACROS and Delta 3200 on hand, and forget the Tri-X. Everything depends on whether or not you'll be able to use
a tripod. Pity if you can't. A nice accessory to have is a little laser pointer, because it's a lot easier to focus on a laser spot in some dark recess
than guessing what's in focus through your viewfinder. Color-film -wise, hard to say unless you get a practice round and review the results.
But just winging it, I'd opt for Portra 400.

I plan to have a tripod with me (they do allow them). Never thought of a laser pointer before. Thinking back i can remember numerous times it would have come in handy. I also plan on taking a flash with me.

jspillane said:
I'd guess that a 250 would be hard to work with in a cave... although could be good to get some detail shots. The real beast will be composing and focusing with it in a dark space. The suggestion of a laser pointer is a really good one, I'll have to try that myself.

I wish I had bought a lens between the 80 and 250 but i didn't. Oh well.

Truzi · Jul 15, 2014

I think I read somewhere on APUG that a flash BULB may work quite well in a cave, if you are able to use that on your camera.

ME Super · Jul 15, 2014

If I recall correctly, Kodak makes Portra 800 as well. It would get you a stop faster than the 400, which may be useful if you're pushing. It's actually 1/3 stop slower than the real speed of Delta 3200, which in reality is a low contrast 1000 speed film.

MrBrowning · Jul 16, 2014

The idea of using color film got me thinking about reciprocity and Ektar 100. Has anyone used the Reciprocity Timer app for iPhone? is it accurate?

I looked up some info here and found some information on Ektar's reciprocity but the Kodak datasheet has nil.

MrBrowning · Jul 16, 2014

Truzi said:
I think I read somewhere on APUG that a flash BULB may work quite well in a cave, if you are able to use that on your camera.

I'll keep that in mind if i decide to do something like this again. I don't have one so I won't be using one this time.

ME Super said:
If I recall correctly, Kodak makes Portra 800 as well. It would get you a stop faster than the 400, which may be useful if you're pushing. It's actually 1/3 stop slower than the real speed of Delta 3200, which in reality is a low contrast 1000 speed film.

I have some Portra 800 at home that I found last night.

MrBrowning · Jul 17, 2014

Last night I made it though a roll of Portra 800, a roll of Tri-X and in the middle of a roll of Ektar my batteries dies on me. I had packed everything except batteries. Murhpys Law. Hopefully something came out with what I was able to shoot.

BrianShaw · Jul 17, 2014

More info, please. So what was the light levels like? Did they have a lot of artificial illumination or just enough for visitor safety? What was the shooting experience like? Was it crowded or could you set up tripod and work without too much interference. Enquiring minds want to know!

MrBrowning · Jul 17, 2014

BrianShaw said:
More info, please. So what was the light levels like? Did they have a lot of artificial illumination or just enough for visitor safety? What was the shooting experience like? Was it crowded or could you set up tripod and work without too much interference. Enquiring minds want to know!

There were less lights that i expected actually. There was a lot of artifical light (red and green mainly) but not to the point of being tacky or completely ruining the experience. Exposures ranged between 10 and 40 seconds with The roll of Tri-x I shot. Including my wife and myself there were 7 people and 2 guides in the cave for 3 hours. Using a tripod was no problem at all. Once we entered the cavern we were free to explore the pathways (but that's all). For $35 a person it is worth the money and I know I'll be going back in a month or two, this time with extra batteries.

At the bottom of the Cavern there is a "lake" and the one guide was nice enough to take us for the boat ride down the 1/8 mile corridor so we could get some pictures.

Thanks to everyone for the advice.

I will post some pictures once I get the color film back from the lab and if I didn't completely screw up I'll post some pictures from the roll of Tri-X tonight or tomorrow.

MrBrowning · Jul 17, 2014

My roll of Tri-X came out blank. I just don't understand it. So now I'm just hoping the Ektar and Portra came out.

I've never had a blank roll of film before.

Anyways next week I hope to have the color film back.

Dr Croubie · Jul 18, 2014

MrBrowning said:
My roll of Tri-X came out blank. I just don't understand it. So now I'm just hoping the Ektar and Portra came out.

I've never had a blank roll of film before.

Anyways next week I hope to have the color film back.

Ouch, sorry to hear it. No edge-markings blank or just thin-frames blank?

Photographing Commercial Caverns

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